TRAIL CAM BAN UPDATE 3/17/21

[Desertguide]

3 hours ago, AZtroutman said:

You apparently need a vocab lesson. I'll help you out. Definition of Minion: 

A servile follower or subordinate of a person in power.

 

Now let me add to that. Minions are a dime a dozen as long as they can wear the flat brim hat with the outfitter logo and post on their Instagram that they guide for said outfitter. Throw them a little cash and they'll do just about anything.

Well whatever you mean by minion, I don't have them or use them. I put in my own work. I'm sure there are outfitters that have young guys that scout for them... we don't. I almost wish we did though. Good guides are hard to find. Most guys don't want to do the work it takes to kill the caliber animals we do in the units we hunt. I've tried to be respectful to everyone I've interacted with on this post. Most everyone has returned that respect. You're an exception. If that's who you are.. cool. Nothing more for me to say to you. Camera ban or not, in the end I dont care because I don't use them. I just don't want more rules and laws. Either way, I still get to wake up every morning and do what I love for a living. 

[SirRoyal]

7 hours ago, Desertguide said:

I don't know about any outfits, I just know a couple guides that do. Like I said, we have lots more time to scout. Well I do because I'm pretty much full time. I can spend a week in a unit, locate several shooters in multiple areas, watch their habits and wait for the hunt to start. A DIY guy might have a couple weekends to scout. Which really means a Saturday morning and evening and then a Sunday morning. He might find some shooters but that doesn't give him the time to really figure them out. And he dang sure isn't covering an entire unit. With cameras he doubles how effective he is. Now, there might be some guides relying heavily on cameras and if a ban does in fact hurt them... well then they aren't very good guides and they'll fade away. Shoot man... the more I type the more I like a ban. I'm selling myself on it!!!

Desertguide just keep reminding yourself you cant Negotiate with a corrupt agenda.   Had things gone different then our approach would be different. At this time it is best that this goes away. 

 They really only have 2 proposals Full ban or the 1/4mile ban. Their semi ban might as well be a full ban based on their timelines.

#1. Full ban is gonna make camera cops out WM's .  Nightmare to enforce!  No way to prove who's unmarked cam is on the fence. Is it a hunters or his buddies or the birdwatchers or the hunter that does not have a tag in that unit and he is not scouting for a friend?   Yes thats legal under their proposal !  Remember it has to be tied to aid or take.  Then the Warden cant touch it legally without an on going investigation.  

#2nd.  The 1/4 mile rule to keep Trail cams  away from man made water is really a bigger nightmare. So now we will have 40 plus salts surrounding the water and there will still be cameras on the fence! For the reasons exactly the same as #1. And now we will have guys sitting water filming in the summer which will cause greater invasive problems with wildlife , and or cattle for 8 months out of the year instead of a few weeks of actually hunting the water.

Or also think about all the times someone's camped less than a 1/4 mile from water. Frustrating because its hard to enforce! Lots of loopholes. 

Unless the Feds( Forest Service)  ban Trail cameras there will always be loopholes and legal ways around this ridiculous proposed ban. 

I am shocked at how reactionary the commission is when they know something is going south they throw  patches on the hemorrhage. And it keeps bleeding! They need to save face and exit this disaster at this time. 

The Commissioners are the Azfgd's boss. They need to realize that the Asst Director was very angry about a personal situation that happened with him in the field in which He was partially at fault.  Which made him very reactionary  and it was not even based on Trail cameras but Trail cams were used as the scapegoat by which to pursue this reason for the Trail Cam ban.  

Just read the Letter From Director Ty Gray to the GRRC. It doesnt even make good sense!  (Significant Threat to public safety) and it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to see something is not adding up!  Come on you guys thIs Isnt even about Trail cams its about CONTROL! 

So now Chairman Davis's bias against Trail cams sees a way to get his Agenda accomplished before he leaves his position. Then he gets Todd Geiler the only real hunter on board.  They tag team the other commissioners into the lie that AZGFD HAS TOLD TO THE GRRC.

Its corruption and hypocrisy at the highest levels. We will continue to expose and pursue all courses of action to defeat this corrupt agenda.

 

[654321]

1 hour ago, SirRoyal said:

Desertguide just keep reminding yourself you cant Negotiate with a corrupt agenda.   Had things gone different then our approach would be different. At this time it is best that this goes away. 

 They really only have 2 proposals Full ban or the 1/4mile ban. Their semi ban might as well be a full ban based on their timelines.

#1. Full ban is gonna make camera cops out WM's .  Nightmare to enforce!  No way to prove who's unmarked cam is on the fence. Is it a hunters or his buddies or the birdwatchers or the hunter that does not have a tag in that unit and he is not scouting for a friend?   Yes thats legal under their proposal !  Remember it has to be tied to aid or take.  Then the Warden cant touch it legally without an on going investigation.  

#2nd.  The 1/4 mile rule to keep Trail cams  away from man made water is really a bigger nightmare. So now we will have 40 plus salts surrounding the water and there will still be cameras on the fence! For the reasons exactly the same as #1. And now we will have guys sitting water filming in the summer which will cause greater invasive problems with wildlife , and or cattle for 8 months out of the year instead of a few weeks of actually hunting the water.

Or also think about all the times someone's camped less than a 1/4 mile from water. Frustrating because its hard to enforce! Lots of loopholes. 

Unless the Feds( Forest Service)  ban Trail cameras there will always be loopholes and legal ways around this ridiculous proposed ban. 

I am shocked at how reactionary the commission is when they know something is going south they throw  patches on the hemorrhage. And it keeps bleeding! They need to save face and exit this disaster at this time. 

The Commissioners are the Azfgd's boss. They need to realize that the Asst Director was very angry about a personal situation that happened with him in the field in which He was partially at fault.  Which made him very reactionary  and it was not even based on Trail cameras but Trail cams were used as the scapegoat by which to pursue this reason for the Trail Cam ban.  

Just read the Letter From Director Ty Gray to the GRRC. It doesnt even make good sense!  (Significant Threat to public safety) and it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to see something is not adding up!  Come on you guys thIs Isnt even about Trail cams its about CONTROL! 

So now Chairman Davis's bias against Trail cams sees a way to get his Agenda accomplished before he leaves his position. Then he gets Todd Geiler the only real hunter on board.  They tag team the other commissioners into the lie that AZGFD HAS TOLD TO THE GRRC.

Its corruption and hypocrisy at the highest levels. We will continue to expose and pursue all courses of action to defeat this corrupt agenda.

 

Trail cam seasons seem to work just fine in other states and if that is the route the AZGFD goes it will work just fine here.

[AZtroutman]

9 hours ago, Desertguide said:

Where can I find "minions"? I keep hearing that word and I guess I missed the minion isle at Sportsmans. I want me some of those!!! Do they come in 4 packs? DUMB!!! 

"Everyone's been respectful except you" lol good try

[SirRoyal]

23 minutes ago, 654321 said:

Trail cam seasons seem to work just fine in other states and if that is the route the AZGFD goes it will work just fine here.

The difference is the LIE! Which the commissioners will not acknowledge on any public forum! 

[Desertguide]

16 minutes ago, AZtroutman said:

"Everyone's been respectful except you" lol good try

Can't even quote me correctly. Yeah I'm done with you... lol. 

[HuntHarder]

31 minutes ago, SirRoyal said:

The difference is the LIE! Which the commissioners will not acknowledge on any public forum! 

So that's your beef?  IF they said fair chase from the start, you would support it? Doubtful

[Desertguide]

9 minutes ago, HuntHarder said:

So that's your beef?  IF they said fair chase from the start, you would support it? Doubtful

Maybe I'm wrong but I think the dept should have a very limited role in the moral/ethical side of hunting. I feel like we hunters should be governing ourselves in that aspect. If we feel there needs to be a change... like trailcams... we should as a group go to the commissioners and request new rules. I feel like their focus should be on wildlife management... not legislating ethics. Of course they should promote ethics but in the end that's up to the individual. If trailcams are a management issue and the use is causing success rates to go up in a way where it will effect tag allocations, awesome... then prove it. If they can show that data, I will fully support a ban. Going the fair chase route and then the public safety route doesn't seem like a fruitful approach.... not if they want hunter support. I know there's strong support on this post but I would bet that overall, there are more that do not support a ban. If I read it correctly, it doesn't look like the majority of respondents support a new rule. I wish there was more involvement in the hunting community to things like this. 

[654321]

5 minutes ago, Desertguide said:

Maybe I'm wrong but I think the dept should have a very limited role in the moral/ethical side of hunting. I feel like we hunters should be governing ourselves in that aspect. If we feel there needs to be a change... like trailcams... we should as a group go to the commissioners and request new rules. I feel like their focus should be on wildlife management... not legislating ethics. Of course they should promote ethics but in the end that's up to the individual. If trailcams are a management issue and the use is causing success rates to go up in a way where it will effect tag allocations, awesome... then prove it. If they can show that data, I will fully support a ban. Going the fair chase route and then the public safety route doesn't seem like a fruitful approach.... not if they want hunter support. I know there's strong support on this post but I would bet that overall, there are more that do not support a ban. If I read it correctly, it doesn't look like the majority of respondents support a new rule. I wish there was more involvement in the hunting community to things like this. 

300,000 plus licensed hunters, seems like if there was a big concern about a trail cam ban there would be more people worried about the ban. 

[Desertguide]

8 minutes ago, 654321 said:

300,000 plus licensed hunters, seems like if there was a big concern about a trail cam ban there would be more people worried about the ban. 

I would be blown away if more than 10% of those licensed hunters even knew this was going on. But you could be right. One thing you can always rely on with the hunting community is apathy

[HuntHarder]

8 minutes ago, Desertguide said:

I would be blown away if more than 10% of those licensed hunters even knew this was going on. But you could be right. 

Agree.  The thing is, Hunters will not police themselves.  examples.  Thermal imaging came out, guys started using it immediately, agfd had to ban it.  Cell phone cameras came out, guys used them immediately, those had to be banned as well.  Airbows came out, guys started using them, AGFD got ahead of that, thank god.  Drones, bowhunting in people's backyards, baiting, the list is endless and will always be endless.  Everyone has different ethics and what they feel equates to fair chase. To be honest I would bet more than 50% of hunters could give 2 shits about fair chase.  They just want to fill their tags.  The select 10-20000 that post on forums probably care more than the other 280000 guys.  

[Desertguide]

1 minute ago, HuntHarder said:

Agree.  The thing is, Hunters will not police themselves.  examples.  Thermal imaging came out, guys started using it immediately, agfd had to ban it.  Cell phone cameras came out, guys used them immediately, those had to be banned as well.  Airbows came out, guys started using them, AGFD got ahead of that, thank god.  Drones, bowhunting in people's backyards, baiting, the list is endless and will always be endless.  Everyone has different ethics and what they fill equates to fair chase, to be honest I would bet more than 50% of hunters could give 2 shits about fair chase.  They just want to fill their tags.  The select 10-20000 that post on forums probably care more than the other 280000 guys.  

Good points. 

[Explorer]

41 minutes ago, HuntHarder said:

Agree.  The thing is, Hunters will not police themselves.  examples.  Thermal imaging came out, guys started using it immediately, agfd had to ban it.  Cell phone cameras came out, guys used them immediately, those had to be banned as well.  Airbows came out, guys started using them, AGFD got ahead of that, thank god.  Drones, bowhunting in people's backyards, baiting, the list is endless and will always be endless.  Everyone has different ethics and what they feel equates to fair chase. To be honest I would bet more than 50% of hunters could give 2 shits about fair chase.  They just want to fill their tags.  The select 10-20000 that post on forums probably care more than the other 280000 guys.  

Pneumatic weapons ARE legal to use for big game. Airbows are legal.....

[HuntHarder]

15 minutes ago, Explorer said:

Pneumatic weapons ARE legal to use for big game. Airbows are legal.....

It was my understanding they r not legal during archery only hunts unless champ? Did I read it wrong? If so, we need to mount up and end that.

[Explorer]

3 hours ago, HuntHarder said:

It was my understanding they r not legal during archery only hunts unless champ? Did I read it wrong? If so, we need to mount up and end that.

It is considered the same as a crossbow. So champ. Muzzy. Crossbow permit.  Rifle season. HAM. I have only ever even seen one or two people with even crossbows so I am not concerned.  Legally my doctor could write me a note from my shoulder surgery and I could get a permit. But I can ethically still draw my bow at 70lbs...  Its not just airbows. You can hunt with high caliber air rifles shooting slugs now.