Cva paramount vs rem ult

[Dcc22hunter]

Any long range muzzleloader guys out there. Looking for recommendations.

[recurveman]

I've got the remington ultimate.   There is a breech plug aftermarket upgrade that allows you to shoot the BH209 powder.    My gun is well under MOA out of the box.   Long range muzzleloading?????   You need to go bust some primers out at 300 yards and let me know what you think.    The wind moves these bullets 10X further than a normal bullet.    I've been shocked at how far the bullets drift with a 5 MPH wind.    Shooting in a 15 MPH wind would be crazy past 150 yards in my book.    The other issue with shooting a muzzy farther is the recoil.   We enjoyed shooting 90 grains of BH209.   Your gun (not you) can handle more powder but I'm not sure you will be happy.   I figured 95 grains of BH 209 was like shooting a 300 win mag.   Shooting this gun at max powder will not be an option for me regardless of needing to shoot farther.   

I personally think the remington muzzy is a really great 300 yard gun.   If a better BC bullet came along then things could change but right now you are basically shooting a heavy brick at animals and 300 to me is a good max distance........Keep in mind I'm comfortable shooting out to a 1000 yards with my normal rifles and I'm not scared to shoot that far either.    Just not with a muzzy.   I say got get one.   You will love it.  

[rkv09]

I had a remington UML and I couldnt get it to shoot worth a dang. I think it was just the luck of the draw, as recurveman stated and have others, the uml can be accurate out of the box. I sent off my uml to Luke at Arrowhead Rifle,(now in phx) and had him rebarrel with a brux barrel and his ignition system. I am shooting sub moa groups at 100 and smashing rocks at 600 yards with BH209 with this set up.  Luke's bullets have good bc for muzzle loader bullets but the wind still affects them more then most bullets. I would recommend a muzzlebreak, the recoil can be stiff with healthy dose if bh209 and 300 grain bullets. 

I just looked up the asking price for the paramounts and I think you would be better off finding a cheap donor SA 700 and having arrowhead spin on a new barrel and ignition system.  

[az300wby]

Remington.  With a break and arrowhead breech plug.  LR customs in Utah is the man!  320 gr fury bullet we are shooting .5 moa!  114 grs of blackhorn by weight. 
200 yard group.

[Redman]

No first hand experience with either-but was really lookin at the CVA  (sure it's a great ML)

I went with a Thompson Pro-Hunter with Match Grade Machine (MGM) Barrel (and breech plug) .45 cal  - improved the trigger with new springs- was really thinking about a smokeless setup (barrel from Arrowhead)- but probably wouldn't use it since not allowed in AZ or NM - a smokeless barrel can use smoke powder but not the other way around (mostly).

Going to shoot the ArrowHead XLD -275 grain (to start) with BH 209- hopefully get good performance (waiting on barrel to test)

Check out MGM, Arrowhead and Hanks Precision websites-  good stuff to watch and read 

One thing that changed my mind was an opinion (by Arrowhead) that the CVA Paramount  wasn't that great, but they have come out with the second gen so? ,  Plus I like the idea of switching the barrel for a centerfire with the Thompson (probably never will either)

Good luck  

[Coach]

Paramount is now offered in .40 which could be really nice. The initial things I've seen so far look pretty impressive.

 

[218buck]

11 hours ago, az300wby said:

Remington.  With a break and arrowhead breech plug.  LR customs in Utah is the man!  320 gr fury bullet we are shooting .5 moa!  114 grs of blackhorn by weight. 
200 yard group.

I bought one of Levi's custom muzzle loaders i haven't got  to do much with it yet he did the load development and has me shooting 125 grains of BH 209 and a 300grain ASG XLD with his Iron Rex brake system 

[recurveman]

8 hours ago, 218buck said:

I bought one of Levi's custom muzzle loaders i haven't got  to do much with it yet he did the load development and has me shooting 125 grains of BH 209 and a 300grain ASG XLD with his Iron Rex brake system 

Hows the recoil

[Big or Bust]

Levi is the man ..

[yotebuster]

I have a .45 cal sabotless built by bad to the bone in las cruces.  It’s my favorite gun.  Shoots as good as any of my centerfires.  I’m very comfortable with it out to 700 with the scope, 300 with a red dot and 275 with iron sights.  It shoots a 300gr Parker at 2600fps with 122gr (by weight) of blackhorn.  
 

Here’s my 2 cents on LR muzzleloaders.  
1:  blackhorn 209 is an absolute must.  777 is water based so it and the residue imbibe water out of the air.  This makes for inconsistent fouling and inconsistent powder.  
2: measure your loads with WEIGHT not volume 

3:  For super long range you need a bore sized bullet.  No plastic, no sabots or plastic belts.  They burn up at the high temps, are very variable with ambient temp changes, and the varying amount of residue in your barrel will change your impact drastically with them.  Get a barrel that’s well built and use a system that has bore sized bullets set up for it

4:  magnum rifle primers are a must to burn magnum charges.  The arrowhead system is great the bad to the bone system is as good and easier to use.  The Remington system won’t work for blackhorn (see #1).  Not sure on the paramount.  
 

5.  You need a muzzlebreak.  My rifle is just behind a .338 lapua at the muzzle for energy.  You wouldn’t dream of shooting a sporter weight lapua without a muzzlebreak.  Don’t try it with a LR muzzy.  
 

My advise would be so send a 700 action to Arrowhead and have them put together a .45 cal bore contact gun with a break as cheap as they can.  Prob still gonna run you $3k but you’ll love it and you’ll be a few hundred over a modified paramount or ultimate by the time you get it where you need it. 

[AZHOUND]

Seems the muzzy world has changed in the last 10 years since I was paying attention. Some really good options out there I really like what I’m hearing about the .40 cal paramount

[yotebuster]

34 minutes ago, AZHOUND said:

Seems the muzzy world has changed in the last 10 years since I was paying attention. Some really good options out there I really like what I’m hearing about the .40 cal paramount

Just keep in mind that it won’t be legal for a lot of states as they have a .45 cal minimum in a lot of places.  

[Wagges]

Just bought a paramount .40 cal HTR. I shoot a lot of long range guns, and I reload everything. That being said, this is my first muzzleloader.  When they only shot a hundred yards, I was not interested. heck, my bow can do that. This gun shoots 1.5 groups at 200 and just under 2 inch 400 yards. Finding the Blackhorn 209 was difficult, and learning how much pressure to put on the loads was tricky. I am using 112 grains BH 209 cci large rifle primers. I measure the powder on two scales down to the single grain of powder. RCBS Chargemaster 1500 and then the RCBS Matchmaster. The velocity is accurate with my ballistic chart showing 2800 velocities and BC at .360.  At 400 yards it takes 5.6 MOA, velocity at 400 is 1931 and energy is 1863. Using a Nightforce NXS. It has been fun. Other states give you a better chance at getting drawn with muzzleloader. Not AZ anymore, there's just too many dang people

[Redman]

Too bad .40 cal are not legal in a few states close to AZ- the Paramount and new Knight are nice.

[257 STW]

12" steel plate rings like a bell @700yards