Tick Tock

[Flatlander]

28 minutes ago, GreyGhost85 said:

So, from what I gather, the system is broken but you will continue to take advantage of the broken system until the broken system is fixed? Without point guard, there will be next to zero donated tags. You do not agree with point guard but will continue to reap it's benefits? Nobody deserves glory tags except that people who are "qualified" to receive them? Quite the conundrum you're caught in.  The biggest org in Arizona does NOT do it correctly. Allotting 5 glory tags to one person in a year, regardless of their medical condition is not ok. 

I don’t see any conundrum and I am not benefiting from anything. My son does.

If a permit that has been legally point guarded is offered to him, I will continue to ask him if he is interested in going on the hunt. This doesn’t keep me awake at night, as it’s the system that the state has established. I will also continue to apply grandma for tags that can be signed over. It’s the system AZGFD has setup, that tag has already been donated and it’s not going back into the pool.  I’m not going to let my kids miss out on opportunities because I don’t agree with the system. I don’t the BP system, but that doesn’t mean I tell AZGFD that I want my app to have zero. We just have to work with what the system is.

What I won’t do is obtain tags through impropriety or compromise my ethics.

Designating any group as more deserving than any other is a very slippery slope. Although I am grateful for the opportunities it has afforded my son, I also recognize that opportunity comes at the expense of someone else. As long as we are designating one group more deserving than another whether it be via donation, bonus points, preference points, outfitter allocations, auctions, raffles etc. There will be disagreement about how those designations are made and where the lines are drawn.

The more we regulate the process the more opportunity there is for taking advantage of the system.

[SwarovskiCoues]

scrolling thru just to see if trphyhntr has roasted anyone lately

[trphyhntr]

6 minutes ago, SwarovskiCoues said:

scrolling thru just to see if trphyhntr has roasted anyone lately

I’m not roasting anyone. Unless they’re asking to get roasted 

[RoughCut]

12 minutes ago, Flatlander said:

I don’t see any conundrum and I am not benefiting from anything. My son does.

If a permit that has been legally point guarded is offered to him, I will continue to ask him if he is interested in going on the hunt. This doesn’t keep me awake at night, as it’s the system that the state has established. I will also continue to apply grandma for tags that can be signed over. It’s the system AZGFD has setup, that tag has already been donated and it’s not going back into the pool.  I’m not going to let my kids miss out on opportunities because I don’t agree with the system. I don’t the BP system, but that doesn’t mean I tell AZGFD that I want my app to have zero. We just have to work with what the system is.

What I won’t do is obtain tags through impropriety or compromise my ethics.

Designating any group as more deserving than any other is a very slippery slope. Although I am grateful for the opportunities it has afforded my son, I also recognize that opportunity comes at the expense of someone else. As long as we are designating one group more deserving than another whether it be via donation, bonus points, preference points, outfitter allocations, auctions, raffles etc. There will be disagreement about how those designations are made and where the lines are drawn.

The more we regulate the process the more opportunity there is for taking advantage of the system.

Impressive, I’ve never thought of being this dishonest, but the guy has a point. Next year I’m definitely putting both my wife’s parents as well as my parents into into the draw. Heck I’ve got a couple of step-grandparents as well. This will help our odds tremendously!! Thanks for the tidbit. 

[CouesFanatic]

3 minutes ago, RoughCut said:

Impressive, I’ve never thought of being this dishonest, but the guy has a point. Next year I’m definitely putting both my wife’s parents as well as my parents into into the draw. Heck I’ve got a couple of step-grandparents as well. This will help our odds tremendously!! Thanks for the tidbit. 

You are only like 10 years behind...Anyone not doing this is getting screwed. Thus the flaw in the system. I agree with Flatlander, we work with what system we have. 

[RoughCut]

2 minutes ago, CouesFanatic said:

You are only like 10 years behind...Anyone not doing this is getting screwed. Thus the flaw in the system. I agree with Flatlander, we work with what system we have. 

I’m in!! Time to hop on that opportunity train!

Actually no thanks Id rather have my integrity and sleep better at night and remember what’s actually important in life. I’ll also teach my children about ethics and character and doing what’s right even though nobody will get you in trouble. 

[aspenband]

6 minutes ago, RoughCut said:

I’m in!! Time to hop on that opportunity train!

Actually no thanks Id rather have my integrity and sleep better at night and remember what’s actually important in life. I’ll also teach my children about ethics and character and doing what’s right even though nobody will get you in trouble. 

I agree with this!  Integrity and ethics are everything!

Keep in mind the ones that are ruining our true opportunity to hunt and decreasing the odds of drawing are the people manipulating the system to better benefit themselves.  The increase in applicants is probably not as much due to population increases as much as it is everybody entering grandma, grandpa, Cousin Vinny, Sister Sue and their neighbors who will never set foot in the field.  Or, as I see so often, go to the field so they are present while the adult manipulating the system shoots the animal for them while they are in camp!

If everyone did this chances of drawing tags would be less than one percent!

[eddielasvegas]

And to think I was drawn the first two years I applied for an elk tag using one app per year.  I always knew I was a lucky guy, but that proves it. 

Let's see if I can go 3 for 3...

 

Eddie

 

[CouesFanatic]

1 hour ago, RoughCut said:

I’m in!! Time to hop on that opportunity train!

Actually no thanks Id rather have my integrity and sleep better at night and remember what’s actually important in life. I’ll also teach my children about ethics and character and doing what’s right even though nobody will get you in trouble. 

To each their own. I don't see it as poor integrity when the G&F set it up like that to increase revenue. They know its happening; its not like we are pulling a fast one on the game and fish. If transferring a tag to a youth or party group apps keep you from sleeping at night you must not have much to worry about. 

[JSR]

1 hour ago, RoughCut said:

Impressive, I’ve never thought of being this dishonest, but the guy has a point. Next year I’m definitely putting both my wife’s parents as well as my parents into into the draw. Heck I’ve got a couple of step-grandparents as well. This will help our odds tremendously!! Thanks for the tidbit. 

Why is it dishonest? It is the current system that G&F has set up.

[GreyGhost85]

1 hour ago, Flatlander said:

I don’t see any conundrum and I am not benefiting from anything. My son does.

If a permit that has been legally point guarded is offered to him, I will continue to ask him if he is interested in going on the hunt. This doesn’t keep me awake at night, as it’s the system that the state has established. I will also continue to apply grandma for tags that can be signed over. It’s the system AZGFD has setup, that tag has already been donated and it’s not going back into the pool.  I’m not going to let my kids miss out on opportunities because I don’t agree with the system. I don’t the BP system, but that doesn’t mean I tell AZGFD that I want my app to have zero. We just have to work with what the system is.

What I won’t do is obtain tags through impropriety or compromise my ethics.

Designating any group as more deserving than any other is a very slippery slope. Although I am grateful for the opportunities it has afforded my son, I also recognize that opportunity comes at the expense of someone else. As long as we are designating one group more deserving than another whether it be via donation, bonus points, preference points, outfitter allocations, auctions, raffles etc. There will be disagreement about how those designations are made and where the lines are drawn.

The more we regulate the process the more opportunity there is for taking advantage of the system.

So what I gather, your only concern is putting primo tags in your children's hands? You stand on your soapbox preaching about the flaws in the system when you 100% take advantage of the all the flaws and loopholes in the system. Do you not see the irony here? I for one would be an advocate of eliminating bonus points because they do not provide any substantial advantage at this point. Would you like to eliminate bonus points for the same reason, or simply for the fact that statistically the odds of putting more primo tags in your kid's hands would increase if bonus points went away? How has someone who has put tens of thousands of dollars into the system and conservation (be it through licenses, tags, application fees or Pittman Robertson)no more deserving of a primo tag than a 10 year old kid? For me a perfect system would have some of the following "rules". Must apply for 10 years before your name even goes into the hat for sheep, bison and rifle antelope. Must sit out for X years after drawing certain tags. Point guard is eliminated, party applications do not average but take the lowest point holder's points. With these 3 things, there would start to be substantial movements in the bonus point pool.

Watching old men die before they get a tag they've been trying to draw their whole life while a 10 year old draws the same tag and has no appreciation or understanding of it's value makes me lose sleep at night. If it does not do the same for any self labeled conservationist, you oughta reconsider where you draw the line.

[RoughCut]

9 minutes ago, JSR said:

Why is it dishonest? It is the current system that G&F has set up.

I’m sure this will go nowhere but answer me this one question. Do you think G&F set up the youth tag sign-over so that people could game the system?

[JSR]

5 minutes ago, RoughCut said:

I’m sure this will go nowhere but answer me this one question. Do you think G&F set up the youth tag sign-over so that people could game the system?

Then they wrote the rule wrong. Deal with them.

[RoughCut]

3 minutes ago, JSR said:

Then they wrote the rule wrong. Deal with them.

You didn’t answer the question....

[wish2hunt]

2 hours ago, SwarovskiCoues said:

scrolling thru just to see if trphyhntr has roasted anyone lately

Trphyhntr has never said anything bad about anyone.