Elk archery setup

[QCwtAddict]

8 hours ago, Green Bullet said:

just use full metal jackets and schwackers or rage and you're golden.   the key from my experience is using a broached that'll open the animal up for a good blood trail. I went with the fixed broad heads for elk because they are so tough idea but I quickly learned even with a great shot sometimes you get shitty blood and it makes it very hard tracking.  

I've personally seen 3 elk that were shot with rage broadheads that bled very little, 2 of them were recovered. I wouldn't say that they're the golden ticket for good blood trails. 

[UggRedBilly]

I also have another question that is kinda related. Have you guys done any OTC CO elk?

I wont ask for any units or spots. I've narrowed it down to about 15 choices. But what I wanted to ask was what kinda hunts do you prefer? Super high pressure with more elk around? Or mid to low with small amounts of elk?

[1uofacat]

On 2/15/2021 at 4:00 PM, PowellSixO said:

I will be the bad guy I guess, and go against the grain. I think a heavier arrow is important. Obviously any arrow with a sharp tip can kill an elk. But after lost elk of my own, I’d say preparing for the less favorable shots/hits is important. We want everything to be perfect, but as we all know it never is. One thing I learned the hard way, is that it is very very hard to track a bull down without a blood trail. So the bigger the hole, and the more holes you have in an elk the better. Rather than rant and rave, I’ll cut to point. A good broadhead, on a heavy arrow. A good broadhead that will cut, and not break is important. A heavy arrow will help pass the broadhead through the elk. If you encounter bone, you want the arrow to keep penetrating. If you don’t encounter bone, the arrow will make two holes instead of one, because it will likely come out the other side. There is a reason people advocate for heavier arrow setups for elk. They’re big critters, with big bones, that have an extremely strong will to survive. Now I think you can go too heavy. I don’t think you need a 1000 grain arrow setup. I tend to think the 500 grain arrow setup is a good happy medium between light and fast, and heavy and slow. Just my two cents.

Hardly the "bad guy"!  I personally shoot a 750gr setup with tapered shafts, single bevel broadheads, and 70lbs (you do the math).  With this there basically isn't an angle that won't provide that shaft very high possibility of a complete pass-through as that system will break shoulder blades, or any other bone it encounters along the way.  That said, I also limit my shots to what I can shoot accurately (more below on this).

19 hours ago, trphyhntr said:

You just shoot them in a good spot. Don’t worry about anything else 

There is the main point, "Shoot them in a good spot".  That said, one also should know their personal limitations, as well as their setup's limitations.  A "super fast dart" has a much smaller pin gap than a heavy setup, and the added weight makes it more difficult to shoot accurately out farther, but the added KE opens up a lot more angles.  

6 hours ago, UggRedBilly said:

I also have another question that is kinda related. Have you guys done any OTC CO elk?

I wont ask for any units or spots. I've narrowed it down to about 15 choices. But what I wanted to ask was what kinda hunts do you prefer? Super high pressure with more elk around? Or mid to low with small amounts of elk?

I've hunted OTC CO elk, primarily in the Mission Mtn. and Engineer Peak (Cascade Creek) area.  It's rugged country, so you better know what you're getting into.  Also, the elevation is extreme, so you'd better be in good shape.  I was living in Flagstaff at the time and ran a lot, so the elevation wasn't much of an issue, but you may want to consider help, not only during the hunt for safety reasons, but if/when you get something down, unless you're very very fortunate, it could be a "mountain" of work to get it out properly.

[trphyhntr]

I hunted otc elk in 1998 and it sucked. But by then I already knew about AZ elk hunting so I was destined to be disappointed 

[UggRedBilly]

2 hours ago, 1uofacat said:

 

I've hunted OTC CO elk, primarily in the Mission Mtn. and Engineer Peak (Cascade Creek) area.  It's rugged country, so you better know what you're getting into.  Also, the elevation is extreme, so you'd better be in good shape.  I was living in Flagstaff at the time and ran a lot, so the elevation wasn't much of an issue, but you may want to consider help, not only during the hunt for safety reasons, but if/when you get something down, unless you're very very fortunate, it could be a "mountain" of work to get it out properly.

Wow 750 is a lot! I wanna try and get up there if possible. Would be tough with such a short length. But still gonna aim to get it high as possible. Imma visit a shop within the next week! Like bear archery.

Also yeah I'm worried about the elevation a ton. I would wanna hunt around 10000 ft and never been up that before and I have asthma. So that may be even worse. Would that canned oxygen help with anything? Or even worth it? I have been in pretty good shape lately when it comes to hiking but that elevation makes it just 3 times harder too. I will also be looking into some people who pack the animals put for us too. I heard of a few groups who do that for some hunters for a fair price. They do it by horse

[UggRedBilly]

2 hours ago, trphyhntr said:

I hunted otc elk in 1998 and it sucked. But by then I already knew about AZ elk hunting so I was destined to be disappointed 

Yeah there is a huge difference and I bet OTC only got worse with all the pressure since. The only elk expirience I had was when I went in Nov. But I mean even seeing an elk or hearing I would honestly be happy with if I were to even go!

[trphyhntr]

6 minutes ago, UggRedBilly said:

Yeah there is a huge difference and I bet OTC only got worse with all the pressure since. The only elk expirience I had was when I went in Nov. But I mean even seeing an elk or hearing I would honestly be happy with if I were to even go!

Yeah it’s all about what you consider a good hunt. I went on the first hunt the time I went and it was full rut in Pinetop AZ and I never heard a bugle CO, saw a few elk. 

[oz31p]

Maybe it’s time to listen to some more podcast and do what they recommend ?

[UggRedBilly]

9 minutes ago, oz31p said:

Maybe it’s time to listen to some more podcast and do what they recommend ?

Yes that too!

[singleshot]

Killed my first bull with a 145 grain Bear Razorhead that cost a dollar apiece on an aluminum Easton Game Getter shaft at 12 yards. Liver and lungs went about 200 yards. Another bull fell victim to a 125 grain steel vortex expandable at 65 yards on a 16/64th Beman carbon shaft, 88 pounds of draw weight and 65 yards of distance. Guts, liver, lung and out the shoulder on the far side. Lost 50 pound spike whitetails, pigs, coyotes and just about everything else with the same combinations, and set ups considered much more high tech. Regardless the animal you really have to put it on them. Making a really good shot regardless of set up is the most important part. Personally I still shoot heavy arrows and 125 grain broadheads. It's what I have a bunch of and I know that if I can make the shot i"m good.

[PRDATR]

11 hours ago, UggRedBilly said:

Also yeah I'm worried about the elevation a ton. I would wanna hunt around 10000 ft and never been up that before and I have asthma. So that may be even worse. Would that canned oxygen help with anything? Or even worth it? I have been in pretty good shape lately when it comes to hiking but that elevation makes it just 3 times harder too. I will also be looking into some people who pack the animals put for us too. I heard of a few groups who do that for some hunters for a fair price. They do it by horse

Consider this. Oxygen % at Sea Level is 20.1%. At 2000' above Sea Level it is 19.4% and at 10,000' it is 14.3%. Best to try to acclimate yourself once you are up there that high for a day or so before exerting yourself and then have a plan for evacuation if you feel hypoxia coming on.

[GreyGhost85]

I would definitely NOT shoot an expandable, especially a rage with a setup that has such little energy. You might be in bad shape if you center punch a rib. I have a video of my friend bouncing a rage off of an 80lb corsican ram at 45 yards. He was shooting a 70lb bow and 400gn arrow at probably around 300fps. Some people have good luck with them on elk but they are likely shooting heavy or fast setups. I’ve seen a lot of expandables fail on elk. Center punching a rib is usually where the failure starts. Do not take offense to this but my GF shoots what is likely a similar setup but less poundage. I have her shooting black eagle 400’s with a 50gn brass insert and a 125 2-blade broadhead. I would feel pretty good about it on an elk. If you don’t want to spend a bunch of money, i would look at doing the same. Keep your arrows, use a brass insert and a solid 125gn head. 

[UggRedBilly]

45 minutes ago, PRDATR said:

Consider this. Oxygen % at Sea Level is 20.1%. At 2000' above Sea Level it is 19.4% and at 10,000' it is 14.3%. Best to try to acclimate yourself once you are up there that high for a day or so before exerting yourself and then have a plan for evacuation if you feel hypoxia coming on.

That is what I was worried about most. What I may do this year is try a couple days of camping without hunting near where I wanna go or I might try hiking up near the katchina peaks because they get pretty high as well! 

ASU has a vacume chamber over near William's field and they had me go in there once and it was not fun. If was for flight school. Crazy stuff

[yotebuster]

A lot of good advice here and a lot of bad advice too.  The take home and the consensus here seems to be shot placement and it couldn’t be more correct.  I killed my first archery animal (eastern whitetail) when I was 7.  I was shooting 22 pounds out of a Browning fox 2 with 18” draw and 20” 1816’s.  I had 125gr cabelas laser pro mags (because they were cheap and on sale for $1 less then the 100’s.  Talk about a yard dart of an arrow.  Shot him in the ribs and it sunk in to the other side.  Woulda done the same to an elk at the same distance and angle.  
Second take home is to make sure your arrows (more importantly your form) isn’t keyholing.  It doesn’t matter how much weight your arrow has, if the center of mass isn’t behind the broadhead when it hits you’re going to be short a huge percentage of the “mathematical” energy you think you have.  This is where the bounced off shots stories occur.  Arrows don’t bounce off of critters if the animal is square and the arrow is square behind the head.  Watch slow mo videos of arrows leaving bows, particularly with poor shooting form and you’ll see what I mean.  Arrows work by putting the limited energy behind a tiny tiny point (hence the importance of sharp heads) and driving it it.  If the arrow is tailing when it hits the energy is driven away from the tip and everything goes downhill from there.  Weight forward can help recover poor form.  
Heavy is important, but not as important as proper spine (also a 400 spine is LIGHTER then a 340 so don’t believe everything you read on here).  You get weight by switching arrow types within your spine, not by going up in spine.  Look at the grains per inch of different arrows within the proper spine for your length and weight.  The number on the spine (300,340,400 etc) is the amount of deflection of a given length shaft with a fixed weight of pressure on it.  Shafts have to have one flex coming out of the bow or the stuff I was talking about before happens.   Heavier heads will create a little more flex in theory, as will more poundage.  
Worry first about what shoots well and second about design when it comes to broadheads.  I’ve shot rage since they come out because they fly well and I have a ton of confidence in them.  I’ve killed 30-40 critters with them in that time from javelina to elk.  Haven’t lost one yet, and if I did it would be my fault not the broadheads.  Lots and lots of wivestails out there about broadheads.  All of it is anecdotal evidence.  I’ve trailed and lost significantly more animals friends have hit with fixed heads then mechanicals, but again that’s just anecdotal.   I will say if you make a poor shot that is back on an animal, a mechanical is your best friend.  If your poor shot is forward on the animal, a small two blade fixed head is your best friend.  The best is to get something that shoots well and hit them between those two spots.  

[UggRedBilly]

That makes a ton of sense. I am not sure what exactly shoots best for my bow yet. I will go out this next week and buy some more sets of arrows heads and inserts. What should I look for when I want "better results"

I know grouping is an obvious one. But should I be looking for how deep they enter the target? Speed? What would be a good thing to really focus on when narrowing down what works for me