There will always be Cameras on water!

[Delw]

2 minutes ago, bowhunter4life said:

Understand completely-   the current poll is either a complete ban or a partial ban with options.  But we know as of last Friday- the commission moved forward with a complete ban. So hunters have two options for a complete ban or a not a ban. It will be up to the department if they decide on an alternative ban as the second option they presented.  

What is interesting is a hunters poll was launch yesterday - there is 2,950 and counting have voted not to have a complete ban of trail cameras.  It appears there are huge numbers of concerned Arizona hunters who are very concerned by loosing this means. 

http://chng.it/fKQC6FwXsX

 

 

 

that poll is more useless than this one.. WHY cause any body can vote grab a new ip and or name and you have another vote. not to mention people getting all there friends and family to vote.

only real poll would be one done by G&F that uses your hunting license number.

Kinda like the recent election, fill out multiple votes by same person etc etc.

 

2 minutes ago, trphyhntr said:

But that still proves most people want cams?

Not most, most that want to use cameras

 

[az300wby]

Fake News!  

[ThomC]

This poll and this thread is exposing the problem with clueless hunters.  An opening of rule making is a government process of changing a rule.  The commission only opened a process in which the subject of game cameras will be discussed.  The rule that the dept suggested was a total ban but that could be changed or discarded.  Granted the commission usually rubber stamps what the dept wants but if enough opposition occurs then the commission may listen.  But, usually hunters sit around and yell at each other on web sites and then bemoan the ban.  The dept is lazy and just wants to take the easy way or more likely the more money way.  Take a tip from the libs march down carefree at the next meeting, circle the building with signs.  

[azbirdhunter88]

11 hours ago, Delw said:

 

that poll is more useless than this one.. WHY cause any body can vote grab a new ip and or name and you have another vote. not to mention people getting all there friends and family to vote.

only real poll would be one done by G&F that uses your hunting license number.

Kinda like the recent election, fill out multiple votes by same person etc etc.

 

Not most, most that want to use cameras

 

I thought the same. This poll means and does nothing. 

[javihammer]

11 hours ago, Delw said:

 

that poll is more useless than this one.. WHY cause any body can vote grab a new ip and or name and you have another vote. not to mention people getting all there friends and family to vote.

only real poll would be one done by G&F that uses your hunting license number.

Kinda like the recent election, fill out multiple votes by same person etc etc.

 

Not most, most that want to use cameras

 

This is 100% correct. Although I appreciate the initiative someone took to setup this poll it is about as unscientific as it gets. As Delw said, the key stakeholders in this are the resident Arizona big game hunters, who knows where these votes are coming from or whether someone has voted more than once. AZGFD has the complete list of Arizona hunters and could make sure the right population is polled.

The only representative poll would be one conducted by a third party firm with polling expertise. There is a whole lot of statistical modeling and psychology that goes into creating a good pool and all of them have some degree of inherent bias in the way the questions are asked even when the poller tries to minimize it. Third party firms are there to help minimize the bias, polls that come from companies directly are usually assumed to support a pre-conceived agenda.

As far as this poll, Several  guys have mentioned they would like seasons minimally but also don’t like bans. The choice related to permitting is a stand alone choice but would likely be necessary for tracking violators if there were seasons.

I find it interesting that the zero ban choice was around 12% most of the day yesterday but is now over 30%. Wondering if there is some thumb on the scale going on as that is quite a jump. 

It is promising to know that even on a site with dedicated named forums for outfitters and trail camera content all over the place there is still a huge segment that supports a complete ban of memory card trail cameras for hunting in Arizona. Imagine the overwhelming landslide in ban supporters there would be if the playing field was more level.

Ryan

 

 

[huntlines]

Cameras on water or people sitting tanks paid by guides because trail cams are banned. there will always be either cameras or guides. Here is an idea, how about just banning guides? Sounds like this will eliminate 90% of all the camera issues. If trail cams are banned, guides will just hire enough people to sit all the water tanks and take pictures with their cell cameras. Unless G&F want to ban taking pictures with cell cams too? Now you will just have to deal with paid guides sitting every water hole in the unit.

[AZMONSTERBULL]

16 hours ago, huntlines said:

Cameras on water or people sitting tanks paid by guides because trail cams are banned. there will always be either cameras or guides. Here is an idea, how about just banning guides? Sounds like this will eliminate 90% of all the camera issues. If trail cams are banned, guides will just hire enough people to sit all the water tanks and take pictures with their cell cameras. Unless G&F want to ban taking pictures with cell cams too? Now you will just have to deal with paid guides sitting every water hole in the unit.

You ban trail cams and that's going to eliminate a lot of guides that rely on cams to do their hunting for them. Before trail cams were placed on every tank in Arizona a lot of guides didn't make it, and that will be the result once this trail cam ban goes into effect.

[NOTAGS]

Here’s a dumb question if you will.  If I put a trail camera out on water in the forest in July , I am not hunting. Possibly littering by the USNFS rules, but I would not be engaged in hunting at that point .   Why TF should GF have anything to do with it UNTIL hunting season?  Are they going to  be enforcing Forest Service rules now? If so start writing people up for driving on closed roads, having fires during fire closures, littering etc.

thats like them citing me for having Powerbait in my tackle box at Lee’s Ferry,   Possession of the item is not a crime, but how or when you use it is. Last I looked, trail cameras are legal to own in America .

[UggRedBilly]

1 hour ago, NOTAGS said:

Here’s a dumb question if you will.  If I put a trail camera out on water in the forest in July , I am not hunting. Possibly littering by the USNFS rules, but I would not be engaged in hunting at that point .   Why TF should GF have anything to do with it UNTIL hunting season?  Are they going to  be enforcing Forest Service rules now? If so start writing people up for driving on closed roads, having fires during fire closures, littering etc.

thats like them citing me for having Powerbait in my tackle box at Lee’s Ferry,   Possession of the item is not a crime, but how or when you use it is. Last I looked, trail cameras are legal to own in America .

This is best comment I've seen on this entire subject! THANK YOU

[Azmuledeer]

53 minutes ago, UggRedBilly said:

This is best comment I've seen on this entire subject! THANK YO

2 hours ago, NOTAGS said:

Here’s a dumb question if you will.  If I put a trail camera out on water in the forest in July , I am not hunting. Possibly littering by the USNFS rules, but I would not be engaged in hunting at that point .   Why TF should GF have anything to do with it UNTIL hunting season?  Are they going to  be enforcing Forest Service rules now? If so start writing people up for driving on closed roads, having fires during fire closures, littering etc.

thats like them citing me for having Powerbait in my tackle box at Lee’s Ferry,   Possession of the item is not a crime, but how or when you use it is. Last I looked, trail cameras are legal to own in America .

Oh but maybe you are 

do you have that year round lion tag in your pocket just saying

[UggRedBilly]

30 minutes ago, Azmuledeer said:

 

Nope. Just deer and elk usually maybe OTC Javelina. But the spot I go to does not allow cams at all. It really just depends on how they could enforce it. If cams are on water during a popular season then it's easy to tell it is probably for hunting. But what about a month like febuary. Not much going on when it comes to hunting. It's just really hard to enforce. Also just a waste of man time. These people go out and earn a bachelor's degree and for what? To throw away cameras?

[Azmuledeer]

I believe a lot of this issue has come from general hunters going into an area and having confrontation with (guides assuming they own an animal because they have it on camera) so people start complaining enough to get the commission to open comment periods from the public let’s see where it goes 

I personally don’t own any cameras and don’t believe you should be able to profit from their use.

[UggRedBilly]

4 hours ago, Azmuledeer said:

I believe a lot of this issue has come from general hunters going into an area and having confrontation with (guides assuming they own an animal because they have it on camera) so people start complaining enough to get the commission to open comment periods from the public let’s see where it goes 

I personally don’t own any cameras and don’t believe you should be able to profit from their use.

Yeah I agree. I never seen any guides do that BUT I do believe you and believe it happens. It's a bad thing to do for the sport

[Delw]

7 hours ago, Azmuledeer said:

I believe a lot of this issue has come from general hunters going into an area and having confrontation with (guides assuming they own an animal because they have it on camera) so people start complaining enough to get the commission to open comment periods from the public let’s see where it goes 

I personally don’t own any cameras and don’t believe you should be able to profit from their use.

YUP USO and a few others did this all the time in the 80's and 90s, both in unit elk and up on the north rim, then it was the tree stand crowed that figured if there tree stand was up no one should be around it, same went with ground blinds and cams when they 1st came out.

[MattMan]

How are the birdwatchers gonna pimp the trail cam pics outside of social media to guides and/or potential clients for the big $$ payout?  Print ‘em and f’n meet in person?  

A tag holder who participates in grey or black market opportunities based on illicit trail cam pics at the very best risks having his trophy removed from the books, negating the whole bought and paid for big dick trophy.  It could come to light years later. 
 

The animals in AZ fall under the purview of The Department, and belong to the RESIDENTS of AZ.  Implement a free permit and registration system for cams used for non-hunting observation purposes.  No label, or tag, whatever, pull it, leave a note that it can be claimed at xx office for 30 days.  If it’s unclaimed, pull the card and use the images for Department research purposes.