azbirdhunter88 Report post Posted December 2, 2020 1 hour ago, HuntHarder said: Do lots of non-hunters use trail cameras in the woods? I get that there is always going to be those guys, who are hunters, but claim they only like to look at the pictures and they don't use them for hunting. I still think most will follow the law. lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elkhunter1 Report post Posted December 2, 2020 On 11/27/2020 at 5:32 PM, WhtMtnHunter said: What is Game and Fish trying to do here? Are they concerned about fair chase? Trying to assuage public pressure? I am curious what is the motivating factor for banning cameras. I think I said it last time this came up, but why doesn't AZGFD take this opportunity to sell Game Camera Permits, just like OHV permits. $40-$50 a permit per camera each year. There must be at least 10,000-50,000 game cameras that operate in AZ on a yearly basis. That would bring in a cool $500,000-$2,500,000+. That's a lot of water hauled, fences fixed, new trucks, employee salaries, etc----every year. The strip guides that run 300+ cameras each can afford the extra fee, or cut back until they can. The average guy with 4-5 cameras can choose to pony up a couple hundred bucks a year, or forego them. I don't think enforcement would be that difficult as the wardens visit the water holes fairly frequently already. Did they ban OHV's when there was tons of illegal off-roading/wildcat roads being made, or preventable accidents? No, they sold a stamp for education and enforcement. Are cameras really a problem? It appears they might some benefit with regards to catching poachers, like that assclown in Heber. Also, it feels like once an AZGFD employee figures out a way to make his or her "mark" on the department, they will try over and over again regardless of the consequences or reality. Do you honestly think the average hunter can afford $40 or $50 per camera? The guides license is only $300 a year and you think Joe hunter will spend more than that with 0 potential of earning it back? You sir are nuts!!!! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elkhunter1 Report post Posted December 2, 2020 On 11/29/2020 at 9:40 PM, SirRoyal said: The Camera issue was before the Commission in 2018. Any Regulation on Cameras was soundly voted down by the Commission . This time there will be some type of parameters put on them. Anti - Hunting organizations are already targeting them here in Arizona. As I was one of maybe 5 guys that was at the very 1st meeting at AZGFD headquarters over Trail cams. I know that Jay Cook of AZGFD had already decided a ban was gonna happen on his watch and he was all for it. But the Commission shut it down. One commissioner said he was afraid it would make criminals out of law abiding citizens. I love using Trail Cams. Its fun , its exciting, its fun to share, its hard work, do I think it effects wildlife? NO ( they adapt very quickly) . But there will be more guys in the woods at prime time if a ban is put into effect and it will definitely affect the animals more than Trail cams. Do specific animals get targeted because of Trail Cameras ? YES Do more mature animals get harvested because of Trail Cams? YES So if we are going to have regulations put on them then just have them pulled down before the 1st big game hunt in August till the end of the year each year. Then everybody is on a level playing field coming opening morning. Kind a like when it rains 1 day before opening day. 😁 Bottom line is AZGFD has already made up its mind on what and how they are going to regulate Trail cams. The Commissioners are the only hope left for some type of a reasonable solution! So from Jan. 1st through mid Aug. there is no big game hunts? Archery deer, Javelina, spring turkey, spring bear, oh and there is Mt. Lion...... There is not a defined timeline that would work. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildwoody Report post Posted December 2, 2020 June 30th to July 1st closed.. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhtMtnHunter Report post Posted December 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Elkhunter1 said: Do you honestly think the average hunter can afford $40 or $50 per camera? The guides license is only $300 a year and you think Joe hunter will spend more than that with 0 potential of earning it back? You sir are nuts!!!! Thank you! I think the MuleyCrazy guide in Kanab who runs 400 cameras on the strip can afford it. The Mossback bison guide with 80+ cameras over salt can afford it. I don't think the $300 guide license even plays into their decision making. Is the problem the guy with a couple cameras or the guy with hundreds on every water source in a unit? From a fair chase perspective... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elkhunter1 Report post Posted December 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, WhtMtnHunter said: Thank you! I think the MuleyCrazy guide in Kanab who runs 400 cameras on the strip can afford it. The Mossback bison guide with 80+ cameras over salt can afford it. I don't think the $300 guide license even plays into their decision making. Is the problem the guy with a couple cameras or the guy with hundreds on every water source in a unit? From a fair chase perspective... I believe 80% of the issues brought to the attention of G&F originate with the guides in the Northern half of the state. I truly believe hunter ethics, and respect for the rancher, land, animals and fellow hunters has been lost! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Delw Report post Posted December 2, 2020 I'm betting there going to run it like trapping. only x amount per user need to have a tag on the cameras etc etc 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoBull350 Report post Posted December 2, 2020 14 hours ago, Non-Typical Solutions said: Ask nobull350 if this is enforceable heal we can't even prosecute a poacher much less a camera law breaker!!! It’s impossible to enforce . If they do ban cams I’ll just have a family member that didn’t draw the unit put up cams and check them . As much as Azgfd wants to have jurisdiction over the forest they don’t have the ability to tell Joe wildlife watcher he can’t have a camera on The forest . 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SirRoyal Report post Posted December 3, 2020 23 hours ago, CouesFanatic said: Ban guides=problem solved You Sir are miss informed! Your byass speaks volumes! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SirRoyal Report post Posted December 3, 2020 22 hours ago, Elkhunter1 said: So from Jan. 1st through mid Aug. there is no big game hunts? Archery deer, Javelina, spring turkey, spring bear, oh and there is Mt. Lion...... There is not a defined timeline that would work. They wont ban them completely! So it will be very close to an existing rule because AZGFD believes in uniformity! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesFanatic Report post Posted December 3, 2020 2 hours ago, SirRoyal said: You Sir are miss informed! Your byass speaks volumes! Sorry if I offended your profession. Do you think the majority of the people running hundreds of cams are guides or non guides? Insta posts of hundreds of cams are not helping. How many non guides are running this many cams? I think we can agree guides are the worst offenders. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZ11 Report post Posted December 3, 2020 20 minutes ago, CouesFanatic said: Sorry if I offended your profession. Do you think the majority of the people running hundreds of cams are guides or non guides? Insta posts of hundreds of cams are not helping. How many non guides are running this many cams? I think we can agree guides are the worst offenders. Just ban the use of trail cams and some guides will then disappear. A perfect situation. It will be like killing two birds with one stone. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UggRedBilly Report post Posted December 3, 2020 I dont understand the issue with the cameras though. It allows for more mature bucks to be harvested during the season. Wouldnt that make management better? Yeah those guides have a ton of cameras in those photos but how much country do we have to hunt on? What issue is being fixed in an amazing hunting state? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azbirdhunter88 Report post Posted December 3, 2020 7 hours ago, UggRedBilly said: I dont understand the issue with the cameras though. It allows for more mature bucks to be harvested during the season. Wouldnt that make management better? Yeah those guides have a ton of cameras in those photos but how much country do we have to hunt on? What issue is being fixed in an amazing hunting state? Losing more and more all the time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThomC Report post Posted December 3, 2020 Paying someone to hunt for you is not fair chase. It is no different than lion hunting where dog handlers tree the Lion and call the hunter to the spot and shoot the lion. Guides are locating the game with cameras and then bringing the shooter to the spot. The cunundrum for the Carefree Clowns is they get alot of money from guides and out of state rich guys. And the state gets money from the other things that the guides and out of state guys buy. The CC doesnt want to kill the golden egg but wants to keep it a little honest. So they use the sheep theory and ban everybody not just the guides. It will be interesting to see what they come up with this time? 😷 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites