300 win mag rifle opinions

[oz31p]

27 minutes ago, loboscout said:

Brakes make concussion to the shooter worse, and to some that is worse than recoil. 

It really depends on the design. But some times for sure. 

[loboscout]

18 hours ago, bowhunter-tw said:

What does .28 nosler offer over 300 wm? 

Its ballistics. A bullet drops less and gets pushed by wind less the faster it is and the higher the BC, ballistic coefficient.  The .28 nosler shoots the most aerodynamic .284/7mm bullets the fastest of most any other 7mm factory round. You have to get a 300 Norma or 300 rum to match the velocity and BC by shooting a 230+ grain .300 bullet. With the big .300 magnums you get much larger recoil. A 300 rum uses over 95 grains of powder. The 7 rem mag uses 65ish for example. All that powder and a bullet weighing 50 grains more... Recoil management most definitely affects precision and accuracy. I firmly believe, and have seen, that the brave guys shooting the lightweight hunting 300 ultramags can't control the recoil well enough to shoot it well, even though the numbers look good.

If anyone wants to come shoot with me, we can take a hike, pick a rock on the next ridge, and see who is most accurate from a field position in unknown conditions. We can shoot for bragging rights. I'll find someone to film it, cause film don't lie.

That is why I shoot a 7mm/.284 wildcat that shoots the 180 grain Berger VLD at 3050 fps. I chose to maximize the size and BC of the bullet but minimize the recoil. It is lethal at further distances than the 300 win mag with any bullet. It has less velocity than the 28 Nosler, but I can get almost twice the barrel life. And, there is very little difference at the reasonable long range hunting shots I will take. 

[loboscout]

For anyone curious on crunching numbers, here is JBM Ballistics, an online ballistic solver. Its actually pretty good and easy to use. The maths don't lie.

https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/calculators/calculators.shtml

When comparing cartridges, like between 300 wm and 7 rem mag, I like to use published data on Hornady Precision Hunter ammo from their website, cause you know the bullet and they give you a muzzle velocity to enter into JBM. I know individual results may vary, but it is a solid baseline to compare basic performance. A reloader may be able to hotrod their preferred cartridge, but all can be hotrodded, which is why the comparison still holds true.

Pay attention to drop and wind drift.

Also, look at what distance the velocity drops below 1800 fps, that is the typical manufacturer's minimal terminal velocity. 

[bowhunter-tw]

6 minutes ago, loboscout said:

That is why I shoot a 7mm/.284 wildcat that shoots the 180 grain Berger VLD at 3050 fps. I chose to maximize the size and BC of the bullet but minimize the recoil.

How would a 7mm rem mag compare? Maybe its a better option for me than the 300wm.

[bowhunter-tw]

7 minutes ago, loboscout said:

If anyone wants to come shoot with me, we can take a hike, pick a rock on the next ridge, and see who is most accurate from a field position in unknown conditions.

Id go shoot with you just to learn how to shoot that far! i can tell you right now my long range rifle skills are not going to be giving anyone a run for their money lol

[recurveman]

12 minutes ago, bowhunter-tw said:

How would a 7mm rem mag compare? Maybe its a better option for me than the 300wm.

Lead is lead.    It goes down range at a given velocity and drops at a known and predictable rate.   Anything under 500 yards that shoots minute of deer is good enough for hunting purposes.   The practical difference between a 30-06, 300 (rum, win mag, weatherby, norma,) mag, 7MM mag of some sort is really not a big deal until you start shooting past 500 yards.   All will kill animals and all will shoot plenty good to kill a deer.    It's splitting hairs for the average hunter.   

Now for me.   My ES needs to be in the single digits.   I reload everything and I often spend way to much time in the weeds.   I also will typically shoot quite a bit more centerfire rifle that most guys.    I enjoy it and I like to have the ability to shoot a very long ways in various conditions and still hit targets as needed.    Shooting past 500 yards takes a fair amount of practice, the right load, ability to read the conditions and understand how those conditions will affect the point of impact of your shot.    I find it fun to shoot that far but it really isn't needed for most hunting situations.     

Bowhunter-tw......Don't get caught up in the cartridge selection.    They are all very close for under 500 yards.    The real difference is spending time behind the shoulder pad and learning the rifle.    That is WAY more important than the cartridge selection.   

[loboscout]

5 minutes ago, bowhunter-tw said:

How would a 7mm rem mag compare? Maybe its a better option for me than the 300wm.

A 7mm rem mag is what I recommend from factory rifles. A 9 twist rifle can shoot the HSM or other loads with the 168 grain Berger bullet. It is all you need to clobber an elk. With the more managable recoil of the 7 rem mag, you can put the bullet in the boiler room more effectively and the 168 Berger is deadly. There is absolutely a recoil impulse that happens before the bullet leaves the bore, and the big 300 exploit shooting weaknesses. If you aren't practiced, you can't shoot accurately with something that is throwing you around. Not to mention most of the guys fail the flinch test when I put a fired case in the rifle, hahahaha. Sometimes, I would fail myself if I am not in the groove.

I shot a 7 rem mag until I built my short mag 7mm Sherman Short mag. I spun that 7 rem mag barrel onto a rifle for my buddy, and I just shot a 0.2 moa group with 180 VLD. Once zeroed, I put the data into my ballistic calculator and my buddy got a first round hit on a 12 inch target at 630 yards. Most people, I can have them shooting 500 yards easy and 1000 yards quickly if the rifle they have is capable. It is complicated when you don't know what you don't know, but with a little instruction, it is pretty amazing to see stuff click. There is nothing like firing a shot, seeing the impact, and then hearing the steel ring 1000 yards away.

I built my rifle last year and had one shot DRT on 3 deer and 2 caribou. I shot my elk 3 times this year, cause he was still standing there. Each bullet was lethal and had double lunged him. Shots with my 7ss have been 100, 100, 425, 575, 575, and 590. I am 100% confident out to 700. This first video is of me practicing my field shooting, and confirming I was 100% proficient at 500 yards in average conditions. I shooting on a tripod like the second video. You can see I put my first shot in the center of the rock, which would be deer sized vitals I think. Then, other than the second shot a couple inches away, I stacked the rest. Most definitely an MOA group at 500 yards.

When I first got started in hunting, I heard lots of talk about what their rifles could do, but never saw anyone back it up. I put in time shooting and studying. Most of the guys have come to me to help them get a rifle and dialed in. A buddy just helped his dad shoot his elk at 1100 yards with a twin to my rifle shooting 180 vld. There was certainly an amount of luck for sure, the first shot was high and they saw it to make the correction. He then sent two fatal shots. That is likely not a shot I would have taken, but the point is, with the right gear and knowledge, if you can press the trigger without disturbing the rifle and a little luck, you can make the hero shot. I would add that a shot with his dad's 270 at 350 yards would probably be the same proportion of luck/rifle/skill... gear can make a difference.

There are lots who are better than me, but I am pretty realistic about my skill and the reality of bullet flight.
 

 

[loboscout]

2 minutes ago, recurveman said:

Lead is lead.    It goes down range at a given velocity and drops at a known and predictable rate.   Anything under 500 yards that shoots minute of deer is good enough for hunting purposes.   The practical difference between a 30-06, 300 (rum, win mag, weatherby, norma,) mag, 7MM mag of some sort is really not a big deal until you start shooting past 500 yards.   All will kill animals and all will shoot plenty good to kill a deer.    It's splitting hairs for the average hunter.   

Now for me.   My ES needs to be in the single digits.   I reload everything and I often spend way to much time in the weeds.   I also will typically shoot quite a bit more centerfire rifle that most guys.    I enjoy it and I like to have the ability to shoot a very long ways in various conditions and still hit targets as needed.    Shooting past 500 yards takes a fair amount of practice, the right load, ability to read the conditions and understand how those conditions will affect the point of impact of your shot.    I find it fun to shoot that far but it really isn't needed for most hunting situations.     

Bowhunter-tw......Don't get caught up in the cartridge selection.    They are all very close for under 500 yards.    The real difference is spending time behind the shoulder pad and learning the rifle.    That is WAY more important than the cartridge selection.   

100% agree recurveman. I reload for precision as well.

One thing I would add is don't overgun it, cause you don't need to add unnecessary recoil to the things you need to learn. Ballistically, recurveman is right, it won't matter what lead is flying, dead is dead. But, you don't need the extra punishment, IMO. 30-06 or 7mm rem mag are my choices for that reason, especially braked with a good recoil pad. Make shooting easy. If you were only to hunt deer, a 260 rem or 6.5 cm, or even a 243 win or 6 creedmoor is deadly inside 500. For most shooters, 500 is a practical maximum range that can be achieved without diving deep into the weeds.

It bears repeating, like recurveman said, the time behind the rifle is what makes you deadly, far more than the cartridge choice.

In fact, I am confident enough that with my 6mm creedmoor I could put a 115 grain VLD hunting bullet into the ribs of an elk inside 500 yards and that bullet would double lung it to do more tissue damage than an 300 wm accubond in the same spot. It is the bullet construction and velocity that is doing the killing with the Berger VLD. You just want to avoid thick bones if you can, and the lungs behind the shoulder are a big target. I've seen enough kills to know how the bullet performs when it all comes together. Of course, the accubond in the shoulder will do far more damage than the 115 vld would do in the shoulder. Its knowing the gear and performance, that's what takes time and some knowledge.

[bowhunter-tw]

30 minutes ago, recurveman said:

Don't get caught up in the cartridge selection.    They are all very close for under 500 yards.    The real difference is spending time behind the shoulder pad and learning the rifle.    That is WAY more important than the cartridge selection.   

I guess its not that I am getting caught up in cartridge selection as much as its me trying to find a reason to buy a magnum cartridge to outgun my 308 for elk or bigger game I probably wont ever hunt. But if I am going to go that big might as well try and get the cartridge that has ballistics to out perform 308 significantly. I would like to shoot over 500 but need to put in the time. I always keep an eye out for a new cartridge to try, kind of an un necessary bad habit I have developed haha

[oz31p]

1 hour ago, loboscout said:

If anyone wants to come shoot with me, we can take a hike, pick a rock on the next ridge, and see who is most accurate from a field position in unknown conditions. We can shoot for bragging rights. I'll find someone to film it, cause film don't lie.

 

Set it up!!

[loboscout]

32 minutes ago, oz31p said:

If anyone wants to come shoot with me, we can take a hike, pick a rock on the next ridge, and see who is most accurate from a field position in unknown conditions. We can shoot for bragging rights. I'll find someone to film it, cause film don't lie.

 

Set it up!!

Saturday, January 30, 2021 9:00 am until we've had enough fun. If it is just a couple people, we can hike and shoot rocks. If there is a bigger group, then I can find somewhere to set up steel at increments out to 1000 yards. We can do it out between Gila Bend and Maricopa, accessible to East and West siders.

PM me if you are in. To anyone who beats me--we can make the rules up as we go--I will give you a shooting bag.

If people just want to come shoot, they are welcome to come see me eat my hat in shame. I can show you what I know within my competency. I'd welcome any others who know more than me to be there and chime in. Its gonna be informal.

[oz31p]

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[bowhunter-tw]

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