Edge Report post Posted September 23, 2020 In the fall of 1873, the US Army adopted the 45-70 Govt round and a new generation of the Springfield Trapdoor rifle. Made with the Allin conversion of the Civil War era M1861 musket, it was a fairly reliable breech loading rifle. The Trapdoor model like the calvary carbine model above, would undergo a few more changes over it's two and a half decades in service. Improvements like a serrated trigger, a ramrod that doubled as a bayonet and the Buffington rear sight; a flip up ladder sight system, calibrated out to 2000 yards. The 45-70 was conceived by the army brass as a volley gun, capable of raining down 405 grain lead projectiles from up to a 6000' distance. But the Buffington sight proved difficult for troopers to master, add to this ammo shortages and an anemic post war Defense budget and you had troops sent into the Indian Wars woefully un-prepaired for accurate rifle engagements. The Trapdoor carbine was heavy, it's ammo; heavy. The rifle rounds trajectory was much like a brick and it's rate of fire was less than stellar, specially when compared to the repeating rifles often used by the late 19th century soldier's adversaries. But that's our history. And I thought a quick comparison to today's Army assault rifle might give one pause to think what carrying a Trapdoor into an engagement might have been like and how far we've come. Weight: An 1873 Trapdoor and 100 rounds of ammo (60 rounds of 45-55-405 was standard issue for the horse soldier) weighed in at about 18.5 pounds. Today's M4 with 500 rounds weighed about the same. Rate of Fire: An army trooper with an M1873 was expected to put 6 rounds of 45-70 downrange per minute. The M4 has a sustained rate of fire of 700-950 rounds per minute. Not a bad improvement over less than a century. But what will the next century bring? 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oz31p Report post Posted September 24, 2020 32 minutes ago, Edge said: In the fall of 1873, the US Army adopted the 45-70 Govt round and a new generation of the Springfield Trapdoor rifle. Made with the Allin conversion of the Civil War era M1861 musket, it was a fairly reliable breech loading rifle. The Trapdoor model like the calvary carbine model above, would undergo a few more changes over it's two and a half decades in service. Improvements like a serrated trigger, a ramrod that doubled as a bayonet and the Buffington rear sight; a flip up ladder sight system, calibrated out to 2000 yards. The 45-70 was conceived by the army brass as a volley gun, capable of raining down 405 grain lead projectiles from up to a 6000' distance. But the Buffington sight proved difficult for troopers to master, add to this ammo shortages and an anemic post war Defense budget and you had troops sent into the Indian Wars woefully un-prepaired for accurate rifle engagements. The Trapdoor carbine was heavy, it's ammo; heavy. The rifle rounds trajectory was much like a brick and it's rate of fire was less than stellar, specially when compared to the repeating rifles often used by the late 19th century soldier's adversaries. But that's our history. And I thought a quick comparison to today's Army assault rifle might give one pause to think what carrying a Trapdoor into an engagement might be like and how far we've come. Weight: An 1873 Trapdoor and 100 rounds of ammo (60 rounds was standard issue for the horse soldier) weighed in at about 18.5 pounds. Today's M4 with 500 rounds weighed about the same. Rate of Fire: An army trooper with an M1873 was expected to put 6 rounds of 45-70 downrange per minute. The M4 has a sustained rate of fire of 700-950 rounds per minute. Not a bad improvement over less than a century. But what will the next century bring? Unmanned soldiers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted September 24, 2020 33 minutes ago, Edge said: In the fall of 1873, the US Army adopted the 45-70 Govt round and a new generation of the Springfield Trapdoor rifle. Made with the Allin conversion of the Civil War era M1861 musket, it was a fairly reliable breech loading rifle. A reason Custer & his 7th Calvary became very dead was due to having nothing but the 1873s and some revolvers, while the natives are thought to have a couple hundred Henry and Spencer rifles. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edge Report post Posted September 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, oz31p said: Unmanned soldiers Sounds demasculating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oz31p Report post Posted September 24, 2020 26 minutes ago, Edge said: Sounds demasculating. It is Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZAV8ER Report post Posted September 29, 2020 The Trapdoor Carbine and the M16 also shared a common flaw, both rifles would jam with fired cases stuck in the chambers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edge Report post Posted September 29, 2020 3 hours ago, AZAV8ER said: The Trapdoor Carbine and the M16 also shared a common flaw, both rifles would jam with fired cases stuck in the chambers. Amen. The early Trapdoor casings were copper and the neck often broke off in the chamber. Add to that the first Trapdoors had an inserted barrel to reduce the original 58 cal down to 50. The barrels often seperated in the field turning the rifle into a club or if you had the regular length rifle, you had a bayonet doubling as a ramrod. No such luck in the cavalries carbine model, no bayonet. So tools were issued to try and deal with jams in the field. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
