AGFD - Don’t forget the non-lead ammo

[Outdoor Writer]

4 hours ago, ThomC said:

Where is the pandemic of people dying who have eaten millions of birds, animals shot with lead.  Your socialist/communist science just doesnt stand the smell test.  Please dont quote the totally biased scientists? at Carefree, their job requires that they spout the party line.  Follow the Money and power.  🙄  😷 

 

Oh, I'm gonna hate myself in the morning for even replying to you ... but this is a cut/paste of one of my messages here from a few years ago:

"Because mammals have different digestive systems than those of the avian creatures, it take much more lead to enter their blood streams, which is where it needs to get to be lethal. That's why people can go through life with a bullet or shotgun pellets embedded in their bodies. For the most part, the mammals eliminate most lead they might eat in their feces. 

Birds, however, ingest it and then it sits in their gizzards where acids break it down and send it directly into the blood stream. This is also why lead shot was killing millions of waterfowl; they ingest it like they would small pebbles to aid digestion. They weren't dying because a hunter hit them with a few stray pellets or two.

Lastly, all the other critters do not have a hundred people constantly monitoring the movements, both visually and through radio telemetry. IOW, a sick condor is noted very quickly and caught for treatment. Some survive and others do not.

I have no doubt lead poisoning kills other scavenger type birds and perhaps even a few mammals over time. The latter would be more affected by tiny particles that might be easily acted on by the stomach acids. It would take quite a bit to kill them, however. But there's an awful lot of country out there where they can curl up and die, and of course eventually disappear -- ashes to ashes, dirt to dirt, so to speak."

To add to the above, most serious cases a of lead poisonings in humans are the result of inhalation, which quickly allows the minute lead particles to enter the bloodstream. Several years ago, I wrote an article for the  National Shooting Sports Foundation about an indoor shooting range in AK. Nearly every member of a youth shooting team wound up with serious lead poisoning because of the inadequate ventilation. 

[Outdoor Writer]

3 hours ago, Flatlander said:

Well lead poisoning is cumulative and impacts brain function, so maybe just look around decide for yourself ...

Probably should have said, look in a mirror. 😎 This from one of my posts in another thread: Do you see this when you shave: WARNING - Objects in mirror are DUMBER than they appear?

[firstcoueswas80]

Killed a ton of critters with the Barnes TTSX.... including every animal on my African safari. They are wonderful bullets at reasonable distances.

[ThomC]

Actually since you have done name calling in your supposedly factual stories, I dont have to look in the mirror because you have provided a pic to look at.😷

[Outdoor Writer]

1 hour ago, ThomC said:

Actually since you have done name calling in your supposedly factual stories, I dont have to look in the mirror because you have provided a pic to look at.😷

Tropyseeker said it dead on the money earlier in this thread:
"I've only been around here for about 6 years, and don't post too much. I do read a lot, however, and in all that time I can't recall reading any meaningful input from you., only sometimes incomprehensible snide or sarcastic comments such as above So why not surprise everyone by saying something intelligent on occasion??"

[ThomC]

Thank you😁 

[RTAYLOR]

sent my coupon in about the time I got them.  Still waiting.  But one box will not due for a hunt once you zero your rifle and spend a day or two at the range. I will use them but only to fowl my barrel.  The last time I used the lead free barnes I had to shot a buck twice and the other buck had to be shot 3 times.  Was not a quick kill by any means and all shots were good shots.  It was not like i was shooting a .243 these were 225 grn bullets in a .338 win mag.  I have zero confidence in the lead free bullets.  Just my 2 cents, but if they work for you then use them!

[muledeerarea33?]

2 minutes ago, RTAYLOR said:

sent my coupon in about the time I got them.  Still waiting.  But one box will not due for a hunt once you zero your rifle and spend a day or two at the range. I will use them but only to fowl my barrel.  The last time I used the lead free barnes I had to shot a buck twice and the other buck had to be shot 3 times.  Was not a quick kill by any means and all shots were good shots.  It was not like i was shooting a .243 these were 225 grn bullets in a .338 win mag.  I have zero confidence in the lead free bullets.  Just my 2 cents, but if they work for you then use them!

Not giving you you crap here, and all guns are different. But do you only spend a day or two at the range shooting your gun before the hunt? Or do you shoot year around? I’ve made lead free bullets work in all of my guns with load development. I choose to shoot lead bullets or jacketed since I already have loads and the bullets. Haven’t had anything run off with a solid copper bullet yet. From rabbit to mule deer.

[firstcoueswas80]

47 minutes ago, RTAYLOR said:

sent my coupon in about the time I got them.  Still waiting.  But one box will not due for a hunt once you zero your rifle and spend a day or two at the range. I will use them but only to fowl my barrel.  The last time I used the lead free barnes I had to shot a buck twice and the other buck had to be shot 3 times.  Was not a quick kill by any means and all shots were good shots.  It was not like i was shooting a .243 these were 225 grn bullets in a .338 win mag.  I have zero confidence in the lead free bullets.  Just my 2 cents, but if they work for you then use them!

What deer were you shooting with a 338? If a coues, thats why they didnt work well, more than likely.

[RTAYLOR]

mule deer.....the couse deer....dead right there but was with sst...i got the lead free bullets from game and fish from the last time i drew a bab tag....and game and fish gave me 2 boxes...this year they are only giving one box if i ever get them....

[452b264]

14 hours ago, RTAYLOR said:

sent my coupon in about the time I got them.  Still waiting.  But one box will not due for a hunt once you zero your rifle and spend a day or two at the range. I will use them but only to fowl my barrel.  The last time I used the lead free barnes I had to shot a buck twice and the other buck had to be shot 3 times.  Was not a quick kill by any means and all shots were good shots.  It was not like i was shooting a .243 these were 225 grn bullets in a .338 win mag.  I have zero confidence in the lead free bullets.  Just my 2 cents, but if they work for you then use them!

Try dropping the bullet weight. Example I wouldn't use anything heavier than a 150 in 308/3006, 150 in 7 mm, 168 gr. in 300 mag. a 127/130 in 270 or 80/85 gr. in 243., 100 gr. in .25 cal.Those 160/185 gr. TTSX would be deadly on deer or elk in a 338, maybe a 210.  Those big heavy weights are for grizzly, elephant and cape buffalo. I know several people who have taken deer and elk with 80 gr. TTSX and it put them down.