Legality of selling or buying a firearm to/from a non resident

[Boarman03]

6 minutes ago, PRDATR said:

" Would I be put up on charges as an accomplice to the murder?"   No, but there is always Civil Court. 

 

"There is an inherent risk in purchasing any used weapon, even from an FFL. Just much less through an FFL." 

Russ I don't see any issue here. Maybe you can elaborate as to why you think there is an apparent risk when a purchase is made through an FFL Holder.

 

Doesn't an FFL just log the number? Feds don't check unless there is an issue? Or do all serial numbers get Checked with the Feds at time of transfer?

With my CCW they just log it. When does the serial number of a firearm get checked?

[Delw]

Boarman sometimes its best to keep your mouth shut when your not 100% sure what your talking about with firearms. your not helping anyone your only confusing people by spewing crap you know nothign about.

 

[Boarman03]

3 minutes ago, Delw said:

Boarman sometimes its best to keep your mouth shut when your not 100% sure what your talking about with firearms. your not helping anyone your only confusing people by spewing crap you know nothign about.

 

I am asking for clarification. Please add clarification if you have some.

[PRDATR]

2 minutes ago, Boarman03 said:

Doesn't an FFL just log the number? Feds don't check unless there is an issue? Or do all serial numbers get Checked with the Feds at time of transfer?

With my CCW they just log it. When does the serial number of a firearm get checked?

When an FFL holder take possession of a firearm, whether that person, company etc  is a retailer, gunsmith or private dealer the firearm gets entered into a Bound Book or nowadays when the 4473 is digital gets stored as a record. 

That information stays onsite at the FFL's location until they surrender their FFL then it gets sent to BATF. "Should" a firearm with a Serial Number need to be "traced",  the local jurisdiction contacts BATF, who in turn goes back to the manufacturer to see who they sold it to, typically in the last 50 years it would have been sold to a Wholesaler who would sell it to an FFL Holder whether that was a storefront or someone running an online business or someone selling out of their home. Once the firearm leaves an FFL Holder it might exchange hands 20 times in private FTF sales and never get back into the "system".

[Delw]

3 minutes ago, Boarman03 said:

I am asking for clarification. Please add clarification if you have some.

then you should have asked that in a separate thread rather than mouthing off in someone else's thread. you weren't buying the gun so it was of no importance to you.

I cant because laws have changed slightly in the last 10 years, I haven't sold guns since the early 2000's (ffl dealer) and I dont keep up on it like I used too. not worht saying what I think and getting someone in trouble or costing someone a sale cause " I thought"

[Delw]

2 minutes ago, PRDATR said:

When an FFL holder take possession of a firearm, whether that person, company etc  is a retailer, gunsmith or private dealer the firearm gets entered into a Bound Book or nowadays when the 4473 is digital gets stored as a record. 

That information stays onsite at the FFL's location until they surrender their FFL then it gets sent to BATF. "Should" a firearm with a Serial Number need to be "traced",  the local jurisdiction contacts BATF, who in turn goes back to the manufacturer to see who they sold it to, typically in the last 50 years it would have been sold to a Wholesaler who would sell it to an FFL Holder whether that was a storefront or someone running an online business or someone selling out of their home. Once the firearm leaves an FFL Holder it might exchange hands 20 times in private FTF sales and never get back into the "system".

Had a fun one back in  1996-9. used to buy tons of guns from wholesalers mostly high dollar shotguns and rifles. a bunch of buddies wanted sks and aks (old school good stuff ) so called this wholesaler in Ca. order from them for about a year. one day BATF came to the house asked to see my books. NP asked me about this particular wholesaler. showed them a few of the guns we just recieved matched the records etc etc. when it was all done and they were leaving they told me what was going on. this wholesaler was also selling illegal guns in a back up business direct from china. if I remember correctly a bunch of those guns had the same serial numbers 1 or 2 of them were also in my book and in my safe.

Seems china was running guns through this wholesaler and had guns with duplicate serial numbers as well as this wholesaler selling to gangs in LA and mexico, they were also mocking up invoice's after the sale with the serial numbers that they sold legally to dealers not to mention full autos. never heard a word about it after ATF left that day. my wholesaler in Phx told me that a few people in AZ had the same issue.

[Curtis Reed]

Follow this for Private sales to keep it easy and legal:

Face to face in AZ - Yes.  Legal to buy/sell in AZ from or to a non resident. It is up to the new gun owner to follow their home state laws when returning home. 

Interstate shipping:  Because all states have different laws, always ship to FFL in buyers home state. 

[Guest akaspecials]

5 hours ago, arizonian said:

 The local LEO could care less when you get stopped, he just wants to know if you are or are not armed when he initiates a stop. 

I wouldn't count on this. We were pulled over by a Maricopa Co Sheriff when I was a lot younger. We were going shooting and had about 30 guns in the vehicle.

 

(For full disclosure, it was a truck that wouldn't pass inspection, full of framers, and we were near criminal speeding with an unopened 30 pack in the front seat...)

 

When we disclosed the firearms, the sheriff got a hard on and ran every single one of those serial numbers.  We sweated our asses off (both literally and metaphorically) for an hour in the middle of July. He came back and put all the guns in the bed of the truck. He then brought back a pile of rounds, unloaded from the firearms and extra magazines, and put them in a pile with the calibers mixed. (That frustrated me, as I felt it was disrespectful.)

 

He said thank you for being sober. Thank you for not having any stolen firearms. Slow the **** down and have a good day. Then he drove off. 

 

Moral of the story, your guns may get run in a traffic stop. They are less likely to get run if you aren't speeding and can pass inspection.

 

[Boarman03]

1 hour ago, Delw said:

then you should have asked that in a separate thread rather than mouthing off in someone else's thread. you weren't buying the gun so it was of no importance to you.

I cant because laws have changed slightly in the last 10 years, I haven't sold guns since the early 2000's (ffl dealer) and I dont keep up on it like I used too. not worht saying what I think and getting someone in trouble or costing someone a sale cause " I thought"

You assume I was not looking to buy, but you error. I have purchased several guns of that value and quality even very recently. I was not trying to kill his sale or hurt it.

ATF website states that it is illegal  for a resident of one state to transfer a firearm to a person of a different state with out using a FFL, except for a few special situations like legal inheritance, immediate family gift, etc. to person's of legal age and ability to possess firearms and inaccordance with the state's laws. (Not exact wording).

I have had no problem from the people that I have purchased the many items from, but I have had fierce criticism from people like you who appear to be only looking and not buying. BigOrange humorously seemed to be keeping track a little, and many others can attest to my statement, like Levers, Bill@Roofer, WildWoody, Eddylasvegas, MyRightsasanAmerican and many, many more.

I started a thread in the correct place and you complain. What is it you really want?

I'll take your constructive criticism, but otherwise, get off my .....

[PRDATR]

28 minutes ago, akaspecials said:

I wouldn't count on this. We were pulled over by a Maricopa Co Sheriff when I was a lot younger. We were going shooting and had about 30 guns in the vehicle.

 

(For full disclosure, it was a truck that wouldn't pass inspection, full of framers, and we were near criminal speeding with an unopened 30 pack in the front seat...)

 

When we disclosed the firearms, the sheriff got a hard on and ran every single one of those serial numbers.  We sweated our asses off (both literally and metaphorically) for an hour in the middle of July. He came back and put all the guns in the bed of the truck. He then brought back a pile of rounds, unloaded from the firearms and extra magazines, and put them in a pile with the calibers mixed. (That frustrated me, as I felt it was disrespectful.)

 

He said thank you for being sober. Thank you for not having any stolen firearms. Slow the **** down and have a good day. Then he drove off. 

 

Moral of the story, your guns may get run in a traffic stop. They are less likely to get run if you aren't speeding and can pass inspection.

 

 "He then brought back a pile of rounds, unloaded from the firearms and extra magazines, and put them in a pile with the calibers mixed. (That frustrated me, as I felt it was disrespectful.)"

I think the deeper lesson learned is don't travel with loaded guns.  If it is a pistol on your body in my book that's fine.

[wildwoody]

Don't sweat it boarman, there always jumping peoples chit for pointing out truths, like my spelling. Anyway do what you want but I'm not touching it. I get mine thru buds guns and they ship it, or purchase in good old AZ. And they check the serial numbers when you come back acrossed the border.. Live and let live. And DELW settle done and have a drink.. 

[10Turkeys]

There was a few of us standing around one time talking to Louie Toy. He used to own Phoenix Shooters Supply, for those that remember that. Anyway he said that he purchased some pistols at one time and passed them along to another company. A guy in like New Jersey blew the tip of one of his fingers off with one of those pistols. Louie said that the lawyers came after him for it, someone ask him what it cost, and he said his insurance picked it up.

[Boarman03]

[Boarman03]

[oz31p]

7 hours ago, AverageJoe said:

A little off topic, and not meant as an attack on you, but, it seems you are relatively new to the gun community and hunting world. And because of this, you are probably happy to share what you’ve learned along the way. That being said, Bringing up what you did publicly in someone’s for sale ad doesnt do anything to help, and labels you as “that guy”. Dont be that guy ...  A little discretion goes a long way.  

But if I have a thought about everything why not share it with the whole world?