Dear Arizona Game & Fish,

[JACK]

I know...if you are going to buy point Guard you must apply solo...lol

[muledeerarea33?]

And I got shoot for agreeing with a dude in another post! Wtf?!

[25-06]

And back to year long lion season...Jan 1st-Dec.31st

[oz31p]

2 minutes ago, 25-06 said:

And back to year long lion season...Jan 1st-Dec.31st

Cost me a lion last year 

[Edge]

Just now, 25-06 said:

And back to year long lion season...Jan 1st-Dec.31st

Was going to list that. How about..

8. Do not bend over for the granola lobby hippies, ever!

[Flatlander]

6 hours ago, coueswt said:

A couple things I would like to see changed or considered:

-Grandparents can not transfer tag to grandchildren.  I’m all for supporting kids hunting but see some kids in families getting great tags every year and multiple great tags every year. 
-I would like to see a year waiting period for bull Elk and Antelope tags. It would help improve draw odds a little at least. Still can buy a point that year in between. 
-Squaring our bonus points. Maybe it would give those that had 10+ points an actual better chance of drawing then someone with 4 points.  

This gets my vote for worst post of the year.

Grandparent transfer: The number of tags grandparents can donate to a kid in their 8 years of eligibility is minuscule when looking at the total number of applicants. Looking for ways to limit child/youth tags is a pretty selfish and short sighted way to try and get yourself a little ahead in the draw.

Waiting periods will make almost no impact on draw odds in the current scenario and even less if we are ever dumb enough to square bonus points.

Squaring bonus points only helps the people at the very top of the point pile and does marginally at the expense of the vast majority of applicants who are below max. What gives me a superior right to hunt an animal than someone who was introduced to hunting just last year? What about a kid who just turned ten? Why don’t they have an equal right to hunt the strip? Just because they were born later, what does that have to do with it? What value does it add to hunting if we make it an old man’s sport and no one gets to hunt while they are young enough to enjoy it? Continuing to tip the scales in favor of a tiny minority who apparently don’t like to go hunting all that much cause they are fine waiting 20 years just doesn’t make sense. 
 

Someone brought up preference points. This is the worst idea in the history of hunting. Once it goes this way, it will just cut the legs out of any hunter recruitment. What’s the point of starting something if there is literally no hope of ever being able to achieve your goal?

Eventually western hunters are going to have to accept that there is more demand than supply. And we will have to take a long look in the mirror to assess whether it’s wise to continually prioritize opportunity for one small group of people at the expense of all others and every future generation to come. Why should the draw favor those who have applied longer? Does that somehow make them more deserving? In actuality the more we complicate the system by adding provisions: bonus points, preference points, point guard, tag transfer, etc. The more opportunity for exploitation we create and the more the system favors the few at the expense of the mass. Someday we will have to bite the bullet or lose our future. It’s just a matter of time.

[Delw]

6 hours ago, Jasper17 said:

I am in total agreement with the grandparent tag transfer going away because you could be putting them in just for this purpose and they might not even care about going hunting but will surely give that tag up for the grandkid.

Every hunt I put in for like 18 years was to give the tags to my kids. Best time of my life. Much better times than hunting for myself. Wife did it too cause she dont hunt.

I like the grand parent idea wish it was around when Dad was still alive he would have done it for the grand kids as well.

[naturebob]

2 hours ago, Edge said:

Was going to list that. How about..

8. Do not bend over for the granola lobby hippies, ever!

Yes , Year long Lion season is needed!  Don't give in to the Anti's. This isn't California! And last  Kids get to many tags handed to them and Great tags too! they don't even know what they have or no idea what they are doing .  It is Bullcrap that the older guys like me have to wait years for those great tags. Screw hunter Recruitment , there was 1 million people when I came here in 77 Now 5 million just in metro Phoenix. There will always be plenty of kids hunting without tags handed to them. Here's an Idea.If we can hand tags to Kids Why can't we hand em to Seniors who have kept this wildlife thing going and spent 10's of Thousands at Banquets over the years  I know I will piss off some of You Daddy's  , But make it a level playing field. Maybee now that I am retired instead of spending all my $ at Banquets I will lobby for old Hunters. Not a bad Idea ....................BOB!

[Flatlander]

27 minutes ago, naturebob said:

Yes , Year long Lion season is needed!  Don't give in to the Anti's. This isn't California! And last  Kids get to many tags handed to them and Great tags too! they don't even know what they have or no idea what they are doing .  It is Bullcrap that the older guys like me have to wait years for those great tags. Screw hunter Recruitment , there was 1 million people when I came here in 77 Now 5 million just in metro Phoenix. There will always be plenty of kids hunting without tags handed to them. Here's an Idea.If we can hand tags to Kids Why can't we hand em to Seniors who have kept this wildlife thing going and spent 10's of Thousands at Banquets over the years  I know I will piss off some of You Daddy's  , But make it a level playing field. Maybee now that I am retired instead of spending all my $ at Banquets I will lobby for old Hunters. Not a bad Idea ....................BOB!

Hey Bob, I’ll send you a pic from the Bab this November😉

I bet my 11 year old won’t spend the whole hunt in a NyQuil induced coma battling pneumonia. Another reason we shouldn’t give old people tags.

[HyNoon]

3 hours ago, oz31p said:

Cost me a lion last year 

Me too

[naturebob]

Flatlander ,That is a Imature statement, By far, I know You wanna be somebody in the hunting world,be my guest. Put Your Kid on TV and in magazines . Why should a Kid get an advantage over a Person who has led the way for these kids? All I am asking for is a level playing field. And if I wasn't sick 2 years ago on my hunt I would of killed a much bigger Buck. But I wouldn't have been in magazines or Videos . heck I killed a Great Buck in 1 day at 62 years old sick as a dog. When I was your age I would have made You look like a turtle. And I had 2 Sons  Who didn't want to hunt and I didn't force them. They are Successful  Bussiness men today , and Great Human beings.  Thats all care about. I never put My Wife or Mom or Dad in for the draw either. Thats where I think it is BS. I know You don't like Me Junior and thats good. By the way I never had Pneumonia I ended my hunt Quick so I didn't get it.  Get your FACTS straight before you talk kid. Keep beating me up if You want , It will just show your immaturity, I won't respond as I am just giving My opinion. Talk all the crap You want..Really no need for Your post as this is an open Forum and I am Merely giving My opinion . You already gave Yours and I responded...............Happy Hunting .....................BOB 

[Delw]

1 hour ago, naturebob said:

 

Why should a Kid get an advantage over a Person who has led the way for these kids? All I am asking for is a level playing field.

It is a level playing field as far as this goes well kinda,

there are many adults who have kids that wouldnt give there kids a tag if there life depended on it. its common in hunting and fishing world (fishing world is worse), The f the kids attitude.

however a person who gives his tag to a kid is givng up his tag/ which means he cant shoot one so its kinda a beak even thing, and there arent that many grandparents that just do it for the kid to hunt.( number wise it wouldn't make a difference)

quite a few grandparents are raising there kids kid(do to a number of reasons). which means grandpa's going to be more than likely going anyway with the kid.

 

the shooting part is kinda boring anyhow. but the hunting parts with a kid is blast that both will last for ever.

[Northern Pintail]

8 hours ago, tomharveyb said:

Go to preference points, not bonus points.  You know exactly where you are.....the only unknown being point creep

And never have a chance to draw good tags.  No thank you.   Right now if you have 25 points for sheep (6 behind max) it would take 50 years.  Everyone with less than 24 points would stop applying.  
 

We don’t have the opportunity like Colorado where you can get left overs.  You would be looking at 8 plus years for a cow tag before a guarantee.  

[firstcoueswas80]

Always thought BOB was a pile of horse dung, now I know so.

 

Man, you sure love to talk about how great you used to be, Bob.

[lancetkenyon]

My wife gave up two tags to Taylor in 8 years.  A 12AE early deer tag and a cow elk tag.  So saying a parent or grandparent that doesn't hunt is giving too many good tags to a junior hunter is very naive.  The parent or grandparent still has to draw those tags too.  Which we all know is not easy to do.

She now has 10 BPs for pronghorn, 8 for deer, and 6 for elk.  She will be getting BPs for the next 9-10 years, so when my two granddaughters turn 10, they will have a chance at a decent tag to get them excited on hunting if they show an interest.  But we all know even at 20, 18, and 16, those are not a given for a bonus pass draw in a premium unit.  Especially pronghorn.  20 is not even close. 

If you haven't ever taken a kid hunting, you don't know the joys it brings to both the kid and to the adult.  And kids are what this sport needs.  Without this generation supporting the tradition in 10-15 years, it will be gone.  If you think that statement is far fetched, you are sorely mistaken.  Look at the world we are living in now.