Muzzy bullets for elk

[rossislider]

1 hour ago, muledeerarea33? said:

Right on. What gun are you shooting and what’s your load? Sabots I’m guessing? I’ve been shooting a muzzle loader for years but not with this technology. I was really hoping to have a nice rifle built by arrowhead or PCR this year but plans changed.

I wish I could have Luke build me a custom rifle, but I am not yet at a place in life where I can put that kind of money into a rifle. He builds phenomenal guns. I am actually just shooting a Remington UML with a few minor modifications (trigger, different plug, etc.)

I hope to do a bit more linkering with my load before I have my next tag. Currently I am shooting those 300 grain Black Max and with TC Super Glide sabots and Blackhorn 209 (100 grains by weight). My muzzle velocity is coming in right at 2140 FPS pretty consistently. 

I have talked to a bunch of guys, who know a lot more than me, that have safely been able to shoot close to 110 grains (by weight). So I am going to play with it a bit because I would like to squeeze out a few more FPS if I can without losing accuracy. Hopefully it will help a little bit on longer Couse shots. 

[rossislider]

1 hour ago, muledeerarea33? said:

That’s what I’m doing now “monkeying” lol

Monkeying with muzzleloaders is painful on the wallet. 

[1denogean]

most of the above is true in my experience, first i would say figuring it all out is super painfull on the wallet and your body and time consuming but you have to do it. and shoot every chance with the bullets you got because just when you think you got it dialed in and figured out boom you miss and your data is wrong. blackhorn powder lots have a major change in velocities as well so make sure you are using the same lot (not cheap but you have to). I have possibly slow lots of powder right now everyone says their muzzleloader same set up as me is going 2200-2400 fps that is not the case with my muzzleloader no matter what i do it seems to stay at 2100 i just leave it because it shoots in the same hole at 100 yards and great out to 500. please go shoot it in the wind on a not bad windy day it will open your eyes like no other just the slightest wind moves these big bullets a ton. okay sorry to go off subject- bullets, I am shooting and shoot parkers( match hunters and black max) as well i felt shot the best after my stash is gone i will possibly change, but my wife shot her bull at 8 yards right thru the shoulder with a parker black max. yes it killed it but the bullet did not exit or even make it to the opposite shoulder just exploded. I'm not complaining at all i loved this bullet it killed it. also last year i shot a coues at 389 yards the bullet hit right where i aimed right behind the shoulder and completely passed thru. on the same hunt my partner shot a coues at 200 with a pitman bullet same design as the parkers and it decimated it, he has a hankins custom which is a dream to shoot. but the pitmans you can get less thick jackets to expand. my next order will be some of them as they shoot awesome as well.

another note order the spin jag starter (do yourself this favor) and the jag from parker it makes everything easier for those style bullet. sorry it sucks to dish the money but makes life easy

[Camofreak]

13 hours ago, rossislider said:

I wish I could have Luke build me a custom rifle, but I am not yet at a place in life where I can put that kind of money into a rifle. He builds phenomenal guns. I am actually just shooting a Remington UML with a few minor modifications (trigger, different plug, etc.)

I hope to do a bit more linkering with my load before I have my next tag. Currently I am shooting those 300 grain Black Max and with TC Super Glide sabots and Blackhorn 209 (100 grains by weight). My muzzle velocity is coming in right at 2140 FPS pretty consistently. 

I have talked to a bunch of guys, who know a lot more than me, that have safely been able to shoot close to 110 grains (by weight). So I am going to play with it a bit because I would like to squeeze out a few more FPS if I can without losing accuracy. Hopefully it will help a little bit on longer Couse shots. 

Give luke a call and chat with him, their is a plethora of guns he can work with you on, not just full custom guns, he does barrels and such for factory guns. 

[rossislider]

4 hours ago, 1denogean said:

most of the above is true in my experience, first i would say figuring it all out is super painfull on the wallet and your body and time consuming but you have to do it. and shoot every chance with the bullets you got because just when you think you got it dialed in and figured out boom you miss and your data is wrong. blackhorn powder lots have a major change in velocities as well so make sure you are using the same lot (not cheap but you have to). I have possibly slow lots of powder right now everyone says their muzzleloader same set up as me is going 2200-2400 fps that is not the case with my muzzleloader no matter what i do it seems to stay at 2100 i just leave it because it shoots in the same hole at 100 yards and great out to 500. please go shoot it in the wind on a not bad windy day it will open your eyes like no other just the slightest wind moves these big bullets a ton. okay sorry to go off subject- bullets, I am shooting and shoot parkers( match hunters and black max) as well i felt shot the best after my stash is gone i will possibly change, but my wife shot her bull at 8 yards right thru the shoulder with a parker black max. yes it killed it but the bullet did not exit or even make it to the opposite shoulder just exploded. I'm not complaining at all i loved this bullet it killed it. also last year i shot a coues at 389 yards the bullet hit right where i aimed right behind the shoulder and completely passed thru. on the same hunt my partner shot a coues at 200 with a pitman bullet same design as the parkers and it decimated it, he has a hankins custom which is a dream to shoot. but the pitmans you can get less thick jackets to expand. my next order will be some of them as they shoot awesome as well.

another note order the spin jag starter (do yourself this favor) and the jag from parker it makes everything easier for those style bullet. sorry it sucks to dish the money but makes life easy

So true, the smallest wind moves these big fat bullets like crazy!!!

[rossislider]

1 hour ago, Camofreak said:

Give luke a call and chat with him, their is a plethora of guns he can work with you on, not just full custom guns, he does barrels and such for factory guns. 

He is the one who helped me upgrade my plug. I might do more further down the road. I just can't justify the cost right now with how little muzzle loader hunting I do and the performance I get as my rifle sits now.

[metau]

Have yet to draw a ML elk tag, so no comment on bullet performance in that regards. Have heard good things about the aforementioned Parkers, and have used Hornady SST's with Harvester H5054LB sabots with excellent accuracy. Just got in some Fury Star Tip MZ 2's to try out, as I have heard good things about them as well (and they are bullet to bore, so no sabot to ruin accuracy). With shooting BH209, weighing your charges is a must for consistency. Whatever volumetric load date you find, multiply by 0.7 to find the load by weight. The 110gr by weight load that Rossislider mentioned is for guys shooting UML's or similar rifles built on actual rifle actions. Your CVA has a max load of 150 black powder, which would be 105gr by weight max for the BH209 load. You should be able to easily find an accuracy node without hitting max pressures. 

[1denogean]

another i would say is the bullets that come with the Remington ultimate all they are is barnes in a box. i can shoot 1 hole groups with those bullets people don't like them because they are 250gr my uncle has slayed several elk with this bullet

[yotebuster]

1 hour ago, metau said:

Have yet to draw a ML elk tag, so no comment on bullet performance in that regards. Have heard good things about the aforementioned Parkers, and have used Hornady SST's with Harvester H5054LB sabots with excellent accuracy. Just got in some Fury Star Tip MZ 2's to try out, as I have heard good things about them as well (and they are bullet to bore, so no sabot to ruin accuracy). With shooting BH209, weighing your charges is a must for consistency. Whatever volumetric load date you find, multiply by 0.7 to find the load by weight. The 110gr by weight load that Rossislider mentioned is for guys shooting UML's or similar rifles built on actual rifle actions. Your CVA has a max load of 150 black powder, which would be 105gr by weight max for the BH209 load. You should be able to easily find an accuracy node without hitting max pressures. 

Also be aware that blackhorn loads should be reduced about 0.7 from pyrodex loads.  The max I would shoot of BH in a CVA, Trafitions or TC would be about 100-110 gr by volume or 70-75 weight.  105gr BH by weight would likely blow up a CVA or traditions and probably a TC.  

[Kelney]

I have dropped many elk and a few deer using Precision Rifle bullets. The model I use is Dead Center. I have an old Remington 700 ML in .54 caliber so I am restricted in the availability of bullets or sabots for that caliber but I see no reason to change if something else was to come available. I usually get pass throughs with lots of internal damage. 

[yotebuster]

11 minutes ago, Kelney said:

I have dropped many elk and a few deer using Precision Rifle bullets. The model I use is Dead Center. I have an old Remington 700 ML in .54 caliber so I am restricted in the availability of bullets or sabots for that caliber but I see no reason to change if something else was to come available. I usually get pass throughs with lots of internal damage. 

I used to shoot these out of my old encore.  They’re great bullets.  Pure lead so no jackets to separate.  I would go that route for sure if I was taking a non magnum muzzy elk hunting.  We shot a half dozen elk with them and they all shot clear through them on lung shots.  Never had any tough angled shots with them though but I think they’d be great in that case.  

[creed]

1 hour ago, Kelney said:

I have dropped many elk and a few deer using Precision Rifle bullets. The model I use is Dead Center. I have an old Remington 700 ML in .54 caliber so I am restricted in the availability of bullets or sabots for that caliber but I see no reason to change if something else was to come available. I usually get pass throughs with lots of internal damage. 

I  shot those years ago at paper and they are the most accurate bullet I found for my old 700. I was looking at them again and thinking of giving them a shot in my Optima. I was wondering about expansion and weight retention though. The MZ Epander opens up like a flower and is very accurate but the claims of extreme  long range accuracy of the Dead Centers caught my attention.

[Rhinoaz]

+1 for Barnes 290 tez and blackhorn 209.  Killed 2 bulls with this setup. 

[muledeerarea33?]

41 minutes ago, Rhinoaz said:

+1 for Barnes 290 tez and blackhorn 209.  Killed 2 bulls with this setup. 

How far, what gun, and load? Sorry for all the questions but I’m finding out this internet thing takes the “encyclopedia” factor out of things. Turns it into a dictionary instead.

[yotebuster]

3 hours ago, creed said:

I  shot those years ago at paper and they are the most accurate bullet I found for my old 700. I was looking at them again and thinking of giving them a shot in my Optima. I was wondering about expansion and weight retention though. The MZ Epander opens up like a flower and is very accurate but the claims of extreme  long range accuracy of the Dead Centers caught my attention.

The Dead centers will retain all their weight as they are solid lead.  They don’t really mushroom as much as just turn into an amorphous blob of lead as they pass through.   They kill stuff nicely though.  The critters I’ve shot with a Barnes had a “cut” wound Chanel almost like a broad head which is nice but they never shot quite as good as the dead centers in my guns.