Max Point Question

[Rharris]

Im one point under max and didn't draw again this yr. this yrs max point pool for sheep should have dropped to 3-7, I suspect. My question is for next yrs bonus pass do they draw those remaining max point holders and then have a second bonus pass draw with the remaining tags for those in the next point pool down (me). Or do those remaining tags go into the general draw?

[lancetkenyon]

You will still be 1 point under max next year until they all draw.  Point creep is a real thing.  Could still be 3-4+ years depending on what unit you apply for.  Could draw next year.  Nothing is for certain.

Only 20% of tags are allotted for the bonus pass.  If there are 10 tags, only two goes in the bonus pass.  The other 9 goes into the general draw I believe.  

Edit:

I stand corrected on the sheep draw, see below.

[Hunterdan]

3 hours ago, Rharris said:

Im one point under max and didn't draw again this yr. this yrs max point pool for sheep should have dropped to 3-7, I suspect. My question is for next yrs bonus pass do they draw those remaining max point holders and then have a second bonus pass draw with the remaining tags for those in the next point pool down (me). Or do those remaining tags go into the general draw?

I could be wrong but don't think it will drop as low as 3-7. I think many of the max point holders are applying for the same 3-4 units. 

[Swivelhead]

17 minutes ago, Hunterdan said:

I could be wrong but don't think it will drop as low as 3-7. I think many of the max point holders are applying for the same 3-4 units. 

Hunterdan makes a valid point, there are a number of variables when it comes to the sheep draw.  A number of max point holders are only eligible for rocky mtn rams.  Suspect the current max point pool will remain a few more years as the remaining participants are likely to be very picky.

20% of available permits are issued in the bonus pass.  Even though you are not currently in the max point pool for sheep, your application is assigned a random number for the bonus pass.  It is possible to draw in the bonus pass without being a max point holder. has not yet happened in the sheep draw to date but suspect it likely happened in the 2020 fall draw cycle. 

From the AZGF website:

How do Bonus Points work in the Big Game Drawing?
There are 3 phases to the Big Game Drawing – the Bonus Point Pass, the First-Second Choice Pass, and the Third-Fourth-Fifth Choice Pass. For each phase of the drawing, a random number is generated for each application plus additional random numbers for each group bonus point (which includes the Hunter Education and Loyalty bonus points) credited to the application. The lowest random number generated for an application is used in the drawing process.

If you are drawn for a species, your bonus points for that species are zeroed out; however, you will retain your Hunter Education bonus point, if you have one, for the next drawing and your Loyalty bonus point for that species if you continue to submit valid application for that species.

[bigbuckclub]

I thought sheep were handled a little different. That the bonus pass is looked at for all tags first - not on a hunt by hunt basis - am I wrong on that?

[lefty]

i am 2 off max can only apply for rocky i'm guessing i got 10 more years. hope you draw soon ralph,

[Swivelhead]

1 hour ago, bigbuckclub said:

I thought sheep were handled a little different. That the bonus pass is looked at for all tags first - not on a hunt by hunt basis - am I wrong on that?

You are correct.  Bonus pass for sheep and bison is 20% of available permits not 20% of tags in a hunt number.

[Rharris]

Yes 20 % of available permits, In years past I have seen as many as 27 max point holders drop out, meaning they drew or didn't apply or something. that said there will be less max point holders in 2021 than tags available in the bonus pass draw. What is the G&F procedure? Good discussion, thanks everyone!

[azsugarbear]

Still a little unclear on this.  Let's say there are 120 permits available.  That would mean 24 permits (20%) available for the bonus pass for max point holders.  Now lets assume that because many max point holders are applying for the same six top units (first & second choice), only 20 of the 24 permits are given out.  What happens to the remaining four permits?  Do they then become available to applicants with one less than max, or are they dumped back into the pool of remaining permits for the general draw?

[Outdoor Writer]

1 hour ago, azsugarbear said:

Still a little unclear on this.  Let's say there are 120 permits available.  That would mean 24 permits (20%) available for the bonus pass for max point holders.  Now lets assume that because many max point holders are applying for the same six top units (first & second choice), only 20 of the 24 permits are given out.  What happens to the remaining four permits?  Do they then become available to applicants with one less than max, or are they dumped back into the pool of remaining permits for the general draw?

There is no such thing as a "bunus point for max point" round. There's a bonus point round, period. 

So let's use your example: 120 permits and 24 to the BONUS POINT round. If 20 guys with max applied for that unit, they would get the first 20 permits. The rest would also go in the BP round to NEXT highest point totals until all 24 are gone. The balance of 96 go into the general draw.

[bigbuckclub]

2 hours ago, azsugarbear said:

Still a little unclear on this.  Let's say there are 120 permits available.  That would mean 24 permits (20%) available for the bonus pass for max point holders.  Now lets assume that because many max point holders are applying for the same six top units (first & second choice), only 20 of the 24 permits are given out.  What happens to the remaining four permits?  Do they then become available to applicants with one less than max, or are they dumped back into the pool of remaining permits for the general draw?

In your example, if max was 31 points and 20 of those tags were drawn, then the remaining 4 tags would be randomly drawn out of the pool of people with 30 points. After that, the remaining 96 tags go into the random draw. 

[654321]

This year there were 122 tags available so 24 should have gone to the BP.  There were 27 people with max points and 205 one under max. Lets say 24 of the 27 drew which I'd be willing to bet that didn't happen that would leave 3 carrying over to next year and lets say 5 of the 205 drew and lets say all 205 and all 27 of the max either put in or bought points you could now be looking at 203 people next year with max points.  

[Rharris]

Ended up 11 max point holders didn't draw. So going into next year looks like this.

11- max points (all residents) 32 points

159- One under max (residents) 31 points- I am one of 159

30 - One under max (non resident) 31 points

So if I understand the system I should be in second round of the bonus pass draw with about 17 permits, then into the regular draw if not drawn in Bonus pass round 2. about a 1-10 chance if I dont get greedy and apply for a popular unit

 

 

[lancetkenyon]

Point creep is real.  You will never draw.  Give up now.

[Elmacho]

They should start posting the age classification of the top bonus point holders so we can start a "deadpool"  give us something to do for a few years.....sorry...dark sense of humor with all sense of sarcasm included...