Kiabab Shutdown

[bcoover]

DB I know you have a quad and use it respectfully. I just wish others would do the same.

[Snapshot]

Yes, I do haul my quad up to drive on roads and trails. Saves a lot of wear and tear on my truck, tires, shocks, dents, etc.

 

Many of the places I go in unit 22 and 23 are old mining roads that are mostly rock and deep ruts. No way I am taking my truck on most of them.

 

No, I do not drive it cross country. However, contrary to what most people think, it is not against the law to drive cross country in MANY areas. So, just because you see tracks 2 miles from the nearest road, does not always mean that the rider was breaking the law. The law might need to be changed regarding that, but what is the use if they won't enforce it.

 

IMO, It's too easy (and cheap) for them to just ban everything instead of actually doing their job and enforcing the existing laws. If can't or won't enforce a law, don't write it.

 

 

You are exactly right ! If they can't or won't enforce the laws then they shouldn't make them, and then take the easy way out by closing roads. I don't use my atv much when I hunt, except to explore some roads, or old two tracks (legally), but alot of guys I see don't even get off the quads.

[Flash]

It's not only about the quads, but with the new proposed rule, all roads are closed unless marked open. This will make access in units 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12 difficult. Now is the time to submit your comments before a decision is made. There is a lot of opposition and that makes the District Ranger (who makes the decision) uncomfortable. Here's the website about it and be sure to call the DR at 635-5600 and tell her you want to be able to access the Forest, which is suppose to be public land!

 

http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/kai/travelmanagement/index.shtml

[azhunter23]

Here's an article from Williams

 

Members of the Williams-based Citizen's for Forest Roads Input (CFRI) voiced their dissatisfaction with the implementation of the Travel Management Rule (TMR) at the regular meeting of Williams City Council May 22. Charlie Bassett, speaking for CFRI, mentioned a number of unresolved issues when it came to the travel policy during the regular meeting. The TMR, currently in the proposed action phase, will seek to close roughly 350 roads on the Kaibab National Forest, while adding 37 miles to the system. Issues related to the TMR include ATV use, dispersed camping and other matters.

 

"As you are probably all aware, we did have a joint venture work session with the Forest Service," Bassett said. "That was actually a little bit disappointing. We had very little participation - low turnout."

 

Bassett said he was disappointed with Forest Service officials following the May 17 meeting, held at the Williams Recreation Center.

 

 

"They've got this proposed action out there on the table and, when you try to pin them down on basic questions, they have no answers. They're pretty good at dancing around it," he said, adding that he believed part of the problem lay with new Forest Service staff on the Williams Ranger District.

 

"Everybody that we had been working with for over a year and a half has moved on to other things. We feel that's bad. It has not been beneficial to us. The people that we're dealing with now, they're all nice people and they're fellow citizens and they're doing their jobs, but quite honestly they don't know this forest from the man on the moon. They really don't. Most of them do understand how the management is applied nationally across the entire United States, but they don't know what this forest needs. They don't know what these citizens, that live here and try to make a living here off of tourism and recreate on the forest, they don't understand what we want. When you've got someone that is in charge of the comments section that has been here since March 8 and has no idea what any road from one to the other is out there in the forest; it's frustrating trying to talk to them."

 

Bassett updated council members on the current CFRI activities during the May 22 regular meeting. Besides participating in a work session held May 24, a number of CFRI members traveled throughout the forest to hand out pamphlets on the road closures to travelers in the forest over the Memorial Weekend holiday.

 

"We are trying to reach people outside of our local area," he said. "The committee doesn't feel the Forest Service has gone the extra mile to make this proposed

 

action public. I think they probably did, a year and a half ago, publish it in enough newspapers around the state to fulfill their obligations to let the citizens know what was going on, but the proposed action that is on the table right now is not out there."

 

CFRI will be on the agenda for the June 11 regular meeting of Williams City Council, according to Bassett. He suggested that members of the city council, as well as city staff members, become more involved in the process, possibly even to the inclusion of legal advice.

 

"I honestly think it needs to go to a lawsuit. I think the Forest Service needs to be sued and put on notice that we're not going to sit back and take them shutting down our livelihood on this forest. The other thing I really feel is that I don't believe the business community has given this enough attention. The feeling I got out of that work session was that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Once the whole public portion of this thing is done and gone and the first phase of it is accepted, from then on out it becomes the prerogative of the each individual ranger that comes here. He doesn't have to have public comment anymore. It won't have to go to the public anymore."

 

Mayor Ken Edes said the TMR, originally, seemed to concern road closures on the Kaibab National Forest and nothing else.

 

"They responded to some of the issues about closure and some of the issues like camping, off the roads," Edes said. "I think some of the people aren't aware that they've thrown in several issues that were never, ever discussed in this year and a half. When I addressed our Forest Service on it and asked them why these things were put in when they were never discussed, they didn't have an answer on it, because these people are coming in on the end of our efforts. I think the only way we can do something is to move it up to the next level."

 

Jackie Banks, public information officer for the Kaibab National Forest, said the idea behind the implementation of the TMR has always been to limit cross-country travel in the forest, though a majority of the focus settled on road closures.

 

"We feel that we tried to emphasize that once the Travel Management Rule is implemented cross country travel will no longer be allowed, however, because of the local interest in roads, we did end up focusing a lot of time and attention at meetings discussing roads," Banks said. "We have tried to make it clear from the beginning that the whole purpose of the Travel Management Rule was to stop cross country travel. A lot of roads that are out there are roads that people are creating. Do we want every person that is going into the forest to be able to create roads and trails wherever they want? That is what's happening right now,"

 

There have been numerous work sessions since the TMR was introduced. Most recently, the comment period was extended to June 20 in order for forest users to provide additional input on the matter. Around 12 people attended the most recent work session, held at the Williams Ranger District May 24.

 

"This is the time to be involved and provide input. The input needs to be coming in now. We'll have another comment period once we have formulated alternatives or modifications to the proposal," Banks said. "After Travel Management is implemented on the Kaibab we would still need to involve the public and talk to people about any future proposed road closure. We put everything into that proposed action that we are interested in seeing closed. We're not holding onto any potential closure to put out there later."

 

Banks said that public input would be sought should revisions to the forthcoming motor vehicle use map be needed. She said the public would be notified via newspaper, television and radio, though she couldn't say for sure whether news agencies would opt to use the information she provides to them. The TMR, after all, is a national policy and many of the media agencies may be busy covering forests closer to their immediate area, Banks said.

 

"I think we have a good balance of people that have been on the forest for a long time. Martie Schramm has a lot of people working for her, many of whom have been on the National Forest for years. (The TMR) has come from the collective knowledge of the Forest Service employees over time," Banks said.

 

 

 

[russd]

this has been in the works for awhile. along with coconino forest also. i have sent emails to all in the past and have gotten the, hey thanks for the input but here is what we think should happen and why it will... from what i have read it seems like a done deal. i have even emailed my congressman about it. but i think he is kinda distracted right now.

[DesertBull]

It's not only about the quads, but with the new proposed rule, all roads are closed unless marked open. This will make access in units 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12 difficult. Now is the time to submit your comments before a decision is made. There is a lot of opposition and that makes the District Ranger (who makes the decision) uncomfortable. Here's the website about it and be sure to call the DR at 635-5600 and tell her you want to be able to access the Forest, which is suppose to be public land!

 

http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/kai/travelmanagement/index.shtml

 

 

That's because wolves and condors are coming to the Peaks, Kendrick Peak, Cataract Canyon, The Grand Canyon, the South Rim, the Upper basin, Long Point, Bill Williams Mnt, Verde Valley, etc.

[KGAINES]

It's not only about the quads, but with the new proposed rule, all roads are closed unless marked open. This will make access in units 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12 difficult. Now is the time to submit your comments before a decision is made. There is a lot of opposition and that makes the District Ranger (who makes the decision) uncomfortable. Here's the website about it and be sure to call the DR at 635-5600 and tell her you want to be able to access the Forest, which is suppose to be public land!

 

http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/kai/travelmanagement/index.shtml

 

 

That's because wolves and condors are coming to the Peaks, Kendrick Peak, Cataract Canyon, The Grand Canyon, the South Rim, the Upper basin, Long Point, Bill Williams Mnt, Verde Valley, etc.

 

The legislature and the governor's office has raided the AZGFD funds to help the 2 billion dollar 2008 deficit that they created, they took part of the La Osa bighorn settlement, the ohv and watercraft funding, but you can bet they didn't touch a dime that was going to the wolves, the condors, the jaguars, the spotted owls, or any other pet project of the commission. Next year could be way worse.

 

[deserthunter23]

Its a shame that what should be a useful tool in the right hands ends up in so many of the wrong hands.I ,like desert bull ,use a quad when i hunt.I have never taken it off road and always abide by the rules.It just helps save the wear and tear on my truck and with gas going out of sight I can make a base camp and more economicaly cover the road system to where I park.its not about lazy,I still put in many miles from were I park,its just that in alot of units,the roads are in such bad shape I really dont want to put the wear and tear on my truck.As far as the few who always screw it up for the many,Id like to know how many are really hunters or just those with no respect for the land or the existing laws.Maybe I am always thinking the best of my fellow hunters but I would have to say almost ALL Ive met in the field over alot of yrs are out there as much for the love of the land as the hunt.Sorry for the ramble,just torks me that once again a few surely can screw it for the rest of us.

[bobbyo]

Come on guys it is not the condors or the wolves fault these areas are getting closed. iTS THE IDIOT ATVERS. LETS BLAME WHO IS RESPONSIBLE. SHOULD WE POST A RANGER ON EVERY TWO TRACK? hOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE YOU REPORTED FOR NOT DRIVING IN DESIGNATED AREAS. You probablly would report a poacher, but not a wayward ATVER. Every problem in Arizona wilderness is not the stupid a-- ,lead eating, chicken hawks fault.

BOB

[DesertBull]

Bob, we're are talking two different things. No one is blaming the wolves, but as soon as the USFS gets all of these roads closed, the USFWS is coming in with their projects that require large areas of little human activity.

 

Truthfully, I have more of a problem with people that go into the forest or desert and leave all of their trash, shot gun shells, bullet casing and beer cans on the ground than ATVs. We never hear of these people getting fined or arrested though. Go out to 4 Peaks or Sugar Loaf Mountain some day and take a look around. It's ruined.

 

Why do you think that the recent OHV program failed to pass. It would have created more funds to enforce the laws and build legal trails to ride on. That's not what they want, they want people off the land, period.

[ichiban43]

Do any of you see any kind of a pattern here? No logging, no oil exploration, no vehicular travel in the woods or desert, close this road because of a dumb flycatcher (forget public safety), wilderness area here--wilderness area there. No internal combustion engines, no nuclear plants--no nothing!!!!!

 

BOB

[Snapshot]

If they want a good pet project, they should re-establish the grizzly back into the Blue Range, no roads in there!

[Flash]

They want people to think its a done deal, but it isn't. Put the pressure on the decision maker and things csan change on this one

[DesertBull]

If you don't think these road closures and camping restrictions are related to this, you need to wake up.

 

http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/in...ic=9339&hl=

[450Dakota]

Was up in Williams this weekend and picked up a notice that went into the proposed closure of over 350 roads in the Kiabab forest . The closure seems to be because of ATV riders that are destroying areas . There is a public hearing tonight in Williams to hear thoughts on this issue. Williams is fighting this because of all of the revenue they get from campers and hunters. I really think they should just come down harder on the people abusing the forest by banning ATV or any offroad vehicles in these areas, that way the people that respect the forest should not have to pay for the people who are not. Being a responsible ATV owner I know this is extreme but I would rather be able to access these areas and not take our quads along than to not be able to access these areas at all. Any other thoughts on this subject.

Info for all that hunt Colorado. If you get caught on roads restricted from ATVs it is going to be points against your hunting license effective March 20, 2008. Get enough points and you won't hunt in Colorado anymore. It used to be a $100 fine but now that price has went up and points against your license. Game Wardens can cite you as well, used to be just BLM.