Kiabab Shutdown

[azhunter23]

Was up in Williams this weekend and picked up a notice that went into the proposed closure of over 350 roads in the Kiabab forest . The closure seems to be because of ATV riders that are destroying areas . There is a public hearing tonight in Williams to hear thoughts on this issue. Williams is fighting this because of all of the revenue they get from campers and hunters. I really think they should just come down harder on the people abusing the forest by banning ATV or any offroad vehicles in these areas, that way the people that respect the forest should not have to pay for the people who are not. Being a responsible ATV owner I know this is extreme but I would rather be able to access these areas and not take our quads along than to not be able to access these areas at all. Any other thoughts on this subject.

[bowsniper]

I also have heard this from a few independent sources. The FS can't keep the quad users from making new roads every weekend, so their strategy is to close down most of the forest to everyone. But don't worry, they plan to have plenty of designated "group camping areas" for the public. Not only the Kiabab, but all the forests are doing it. Like our buddies at G&F, the FS will go through their bogus public input sessions, and then do exactly what they want, pick their "preferred alternative". I have seen it myself, a new quad trail that wasn't there the week before, and now they are all riding on it. Thanks a lot irresponsible quad riders, (probably 90% of all quad riders) you screwed it up for all of us!

 

Mark

[DesertBull]

So, instead of enforcing the current laws, they make new ones to screw us all? Typical Gov't response.

[Chef]

This is some seriously bad news.

[AZantlerhead]

Well said azhunter, bowsniper. Glad Others take this serious too. But it seems us few serious woodsmen who really do care can have no damper on This issue. It's like watching a train come from miles away when ur tied to the tracks. Only in the form of a million quads.

 

I also agree Desertbull that the Gov should actually enforce the laws. i.e ( Impounding, loss of License for a year, Hefty fines ) But that won't happen and even if it did they don't have the manpower. So yeah it's inevitable that they close 90% of real F.S roads that lead to these probly thousands of new roads or "trails" as they call umm.

 

The media doesn't help. All they seem to play now on the outdoor chanel is comerrcials of people running the baja1000 through a pristine forest, and mudd bogging in the streams and springs. And what happened to the Tread Lightly organization? I don't see their commercials.

 

Personaly, I wanna take a 380 elk shed and close line that guy on the Polaris Sportsman commecial. He says " Every weekend me and my buddies go out and get after it" Then they show him doing a hill climb and you can see the real road on the side of the screen. yeah . WACK!!!!!!!

 

There are a few responsible ATV guys out there. a few. But those few and us who simlpy drive our trucks on established-numbered roads will pay the most. But imagine how good the hunting will become in the Kaibab if they do close 350 roads!

 

I think they had this problem in the Jeep Boom of the 70's too? Ohh Well, close every dirt road. Whatever it takes to keep those things off the land. OUR land!!

[DesertBull]

I think it is more like 10% are the knuckleheads and are doing 90% of the damage.

 

As soon as the all the roads are closed, you will see the Forest Circus start wolf and Condor planting in those "roadless areas". Wolves are coming to both the North and South Kaibab, watch and see.

 

Then comes the total lead ban. Already in the works.

 

Then grazing allotments will be stopped.

 

Then areas totally closed off, including foot and horse traffic, in areas that the wolves and buzzards need to breed and rear their young.

 

 

 

 

[TLH]

And to piggy tail Desertbull--the 10% that do 90% of the damage will still be out there tearing the heck out of the woods because they know there will be no law enforcement to stop them. Laws are only for us who abide by them not the a-holes that break them. The only people that got hurt on this one is the folks that never tore the roads up or added new roads--the law breakers will still be out there doing what they always have done and their is no one that can stop them--not even the forest closures.

[AZantlerhead]

The "Forest Circus" . Good one Desert.

 

TLH, a good example too you're comment. I was shed hunting town in unit 1 a month ago and I walked up too this gate on a road I found to hike out. Well, I came to the gate and found it chained and locked. so I just went through the fence of course. When I read the sign on the other side of the fence it read " area closed to Motorized, ohv, etc. etc. for wildlife and habitat protection" Yet the road I'd been walking to get out had a ton of atv tracks, shed hunters i guess, I still managed to find 3 elk sheds within sight of the road though Yes nothing can stop some of it.... Cept that WACK I was talking about

[cooper]

I have seen the roads up there but never crossed paths with an ATV. Every time I go up its around christmas, and I just go and glass. I think that is some of the best country up there. I would hate to see it come to what some of you are talking about.

[.270]

a couple jerks on atvs is why the road from honeymoon to malay is closed for half the year. all burrocrats take the shotgun logic to problem solving. i hafta kinda agree with desert bull, the real goal is closed forests, except to granola bars. no hunting, fishing, camping, cattle, logging, off road vehicles, etc. if they just wanted to close roads to enchance habitat or keep jerks on atvs from tearing stuff up, or other good reasons, i'm all for it. but there always seems to be hidden motives and agendas that seem to keep coming up after they get started. another thing that gripes me is that instead of closing a road, i mean take a D9 and put the ripper down and tear it out to where nobody would even want to use it. instead they put up a sign or maybe put a few rocks across the road, that folks just go around and tear up even more country in the process. desert bull is right about the wolves too. they'll be there soon. they have to find a place that will work. it's apparant the the blue range and gila wilderness experiment has been a miserable failure. Lark.

[bcoover]

I say ban all atv's. For the purpose of hunting. I don't own one and never will. I hunt the way my father taught me.... by walking on my own too feet. If you can't drive to a spot in your truck then you shouldn't be there destroying the forest on your quad. I can't tell you how many hunters I have run into on their quads just spoiling the hunt for others.

[DesertBull]

What's the difference between driving a quad to the trail head or a truck?

[.270]

zakly, desert bull. ya know, if i think about, i think i've seen more irresponsible folks in 4x4's than on atv's. and i ain't an atv fan. don't own one, yet. but i can see it coming. i've some real jackasses on atv's and dirt bikes too. and jeeps and dune buggies and pickups, etc. but it still don't like to see wholesale road closures either. hard to say just how it's gonna play out, but i don't have a lotta faith in any burrocrat. Lark.

[bcoover]

What's the difference between driving a quad to the trail head or a truck?

 

 

There isn't much differecne. But are you going to tow your quad all the way up to where ever you are going just to drive roads. One question DB have you ever taken your quad one inch of a dirt road? I am not trying to start anything I have taken my truck off road a few times, but I am talking about turning around in a narrow place. not driving accross the country side. Quads and Atv's make that all too possible and in some cases too much of a temptation.

[DesertBull]

Yes, I do haul my quad up to drive on roads and trails. Saves a lot of wear and tear on my truck, tires, shocks, dents, etc.

 

Many of the places I go in unit 22 and 23 are old mining roads that are mostly rock and deep ruts. No way I am taking my truck on most of them.

 

No, I do not drive it cross country. However, contrary to what most people think, it is not against the law to drive cross country in MANY areas. So, just because you see tracks 2 miles from the nearest road, does not always mean that the rider was breaking the law. The law might need to be changed regarding that, but what is the use if they won't enforce it.

 

IMO, It's too easy (and cheap) for them to just ban everything instead of actually doing their job and enforcing the existing laws. If can't or won't enforce a law, don't write it.