RIP UP THOSE AZG&F SURVEY CARDS!!!!

[bowsniper]

 

Whoops! I accidentally on purposely ripped up my Spring Turkey survey cards! But, NO WORRIES! They are VOLUNTARY! So, when they are not returned, G&F has a magic crystal ball to figure out the harvest data without my input. ( well, that’s no surprise! G&F does everything else without listening to hunter input, so why should harvest data be any different??!!) With this magic G&F crystal ball, they can make up their own harvest data and set the next years hunt permits anyway they want to. Why bother with these silly survey cards, unless of course you are an archery deer hunter. The magic crystal ball seems to be broke for deer harvested with an arrow, but only for some units. Maybe it’s a lead detecting crystal ball, that can only detect arrows in certain units?

 

Seriously, many AZ hunters and AZ Hunting organizations have pleaded with G&F to make harvest reports mandatory, reasoning that with accurate harvest data, G&F could have better data to set future hunts and manage the wildlife more accurately. But G&F has repeatedly ignored hunter suggestions to make harvest survey data mandatory. Why wouldn’t G&F want better harvest data to make better management decisions? Leonard says that it’s because they don’t want to make more obstacles for hunters, unless you are an archery hunter in a certain unit. I guess those guys are different, not minding the additional obstacle, like the guys who hunt sheep, bear, lion, buffalo. (required harvest report)

 

My suggestion is to rip up your survey card. Since hunter input has failed (again), possibly some passive aggressive direct action could move G&F. If the harvest survey return rate were so low, maybe G&F would re-think their position.

 

Mark

[Rembrant]

When a survey card is not returned is is considered unsuccesful.

Falsefying hunter success isn't the answer, Mark.

Mike

[willhunt4coues]

It only takes a minute to fill out. Maybe they take the cards into consideration when draw time comes. But do what you want I will continue to fill mine out.

[DesertBull]

They could save a lot of postage if they would just put the survey online.

[SunDevil]

I completely agree with Mark - MAKE IT MANDATORY - I also hunt NM and UT. They both have mandatory reporting and guess what - IT IS NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL. Both of these states have it set up online and oh, my bad, AZ G&F isn't set up to do anything online - welcome to 2008. Mandatory reporting will take more guess work out of one of the G&F's job and thus improve results of their work. Their refusal to go down this road only makes me think they have some agenda to keep it the way it is.

 

I personally do not fill mine out. If they want to guess, let 'em guess.

[DesertBull]

But it is easier to justify tag numbers when the data is sketchy.

[AZcoues_addict]

But it is easier to justify tag numbers when the data is sketchy.

 

I also wish they would make it mandatory to report harvest information, but the above quote is the primary reason why I still send mine in and will continue to do so. I want them to have the most accurate information they can.

[.270]

don't know if you fellers recall, but there was a bunnypig that useta surf around this sight for awhile a couple years back, and i asked him how they did it. used the u22n unit as an example. this happened to be the first year that they went to the earlier draw for elk and pronghorn. the literature was avaiable within a couple weeks after the last late bull hunt in u22n, the survey cards hadn't even been sent out yet, much less had the data collected, but the azgfd somehow found it justified to double the permits on one hunt and nearly double them on the next hunt. they hadn't done any ariel suverys, had no data collected from the survey cards, nothing, but they increased the permits on the 2 hunts by several hundred tags. i hunted that unit that year with my cousin and noticed a really big buncha uso guides and clients in the area and they had a really big camp set up on the east verde.. anyway, you know me, i tweeked the guys nose a little by implying that the azgfd increased the heck outta the permits in order to get more nonres tags in the unit. now i kinda doubt that boy george has much input into how tags are allocated here, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the bean counters at the azgfd weren't thinking what i was thinking. anyway, the guy never answered me and i never saw him around here anymore. can't remember his name. but this is one of the things that really bugs me about the azgfd. they seem to want to increase the heck outta the tags that cost a lot. in other words, any nores tag and all the resident tags, except deer and turkey. anyway, i'm sorta with desertbull here. i don't see the use of the surveys when it is real plain that they don't use the data. why waste the money on the program, if they aren't going to do real research with it? it's got to be a fairly substantial sum to fund it. shroufe turned the azgfd into an accounting firm that is only interested in the bottom line. the elk herd is basically livestock. let them propogate to the point that they do real damage to the other wildlife and flora. (and they have) as long as they can sell a lotta permits. it was kinda cool for about a decade. big bulls everywhere and lots of em. now they've even hurt the elk herd. bull/cow ratios are way off. the herd is nothing like it was a few years ago. the elk have expanded into non traditional land and really hurt deer herds in those areas. we still get some big bulls each year, but no more than any other state. seems like utah shoots a lot more big bulls than we do. but they also sell a lot of their best tags to the highest bidder. i don't know the answer, but i do know that the survey ain't the answer. and i do know that ignoring data ain't the answer. Lark.

[CouesWhitetail]

I agree with mandatory reporting requirements. I don't see it as a barrier to hunter recruitment or retention as the dept has suggested. However, I feel it sends the wrong msg to refuse to fill out the cards. Seems to me as hunters we have a responsibility to help manage the deer herds in the best way possible. Giving back honest data to AGFD about your hunt success is one way to do that. Mandatory reporting would give them better data, and I suggest that you join a wildlife group that is supporting that stance (I think all of them do). Send a letter to the commission requesting they institute mandatory reporting. Or go to a commission meeting to push for it. The more people that the commission hears from the better. It's possible that whoever takes Leonard's place as game branch chief will be more in favor of implementing mandatory reporting. The new director may even favor it, I don't know. But there are some changes going on in the dept and the commission that may make this a better time to get this idea implemented.

 

Amanda

 

[bcoover]

I don't send mine in either. I know we all have a love for our wildlife and want to help. But filling out the cards only make the problem bigger. Until everyone fills thiers out it won't be worth it. The only way to do this is to make it mandatory. Unity is the answer here if we all threw them in the trash the G&F would have to do something out it. But the few hunters that do fill them out only enable the situation. We could band together and force the G&F to go to a mandatory reporting. It wouldn't be that difficult. Getting all of us to a meeting yes very difficult. But having all of us standing up and saying we will not fill those cards out unless we have to. Would have to hit home with them. All you have to do is throw thim in the trash. Just my two cents.

[SunDevil]

I do not disagree with you Amanda. another option would be for everyone to boycott the survey cards and FORCE G&F to make it mandatory, assuming they even use the information anyway.

[.270]

Amanda, i shoulda added a little to my rant. i have no problem with the survey or making it a requirement. i belive the original intent was a good thing. i do have a problem with what i percieve as the azgfd doing nothing productive with the data. the u22n example i used is a real thing. it happened. they drastically increased permits with absolutely no data to support it. the absolute refusal of the azgfd to use the data that it spends a fortune collecting is a real sore spot. the survey is just one little part. over the years the azgfd has spent a lot of money to collect info on different things and then let politics dictate what they do, instead of real live science. they let the lions kill the strip deer herd, when they had their own bioligists begging them to do something about it. they've let the elk herd explode into areas they shouldn't be in. they're letting the desert bighorns dissapear in some areas, right now, because they're afraid to do the right thing and kill some lions. it's an endless list that gets bigger every year. politics and accountants are making decisions that science needs to make. they're trying to legislate nature. or let some accountant with short sighted plans squeeze a few more nickels out of it. but once again, if the azgfd refuses to use data that they spend money collecting, then they need to just quit collecting the data and use the funds on something that might make things better. Lark.

[Rembrant]

Manditory surveys AND manditory Hunter Ed certificates. That's what I say. The question is how to get 'er done. Amanda offered good suggestions.

To rip up the survey cards because it's not required for everyone to fill em out is like quiting the highschool basketball team because you're not getting enough playing time.

Stupid.

Mike

[Bird Dog]

Well, unfortunately the survey card helps some hard working men and women whom do care about their job. Now whether or not the commision listens to those biologists is another story and is really whom you are trying to punish...right ?

[willhunt4coues]

Okay what i don't understand is that some of you say make it manditory but yet you rip up your surveys or throw them away. Why don't we all at COUESWHITETAIL.COM ban together and all members fill their cards out so that they have that much more info? Or better yet all or most of us get together at the AZGFD meeting and see if we can get it manditory.