Distance?

[COOSEFAN]

I've heard of bow hunters taking 80 yard shots too. Lazy Bass turds.

 

Heck, 80 yards is the new 50 There are a bunch of folks out there right now that "launch" arrows as soon as they near that 100 yard mark It sickens me to see it or hear about it........total lack of respect for the animal and the image of bowhunting, and is only done becuase people are so eager to impress and be successful...regardless of how they achieve it! I do know a few folks and have guided a few that truely are capable of taking a 80 yard shot. These folks practice religiously and can group arrows tighter at 80 than most can at 30. Like has been said before, sometimes that once in a lifetime buck or bull may hang up at 80 yards........if that's within your range and you're confident, consistent and are able to range the critter.....then take the shot. OTHERWISE letdown and get closer....no reason to chance wounding a critter......and if you still feel like flingin' an arrow just to see where it hits, then you need to take up bowling and get out of my woods! What it all boils down to is that we all know deep down inside what our limitations are and each one of us knows when we are exceeding our own limits and taking a chance at wounding an animal.......it's not fair to the animal or the sport by taking chances like that. There's my $.02 JIM>

 

Hold on their partner. Why would a 80 yard bow shot sicken you more than a 500 yard rifle shot? There is a bunch of people on this very sight that fire away as soon as they get to the 500 yard mark or more. They even brag about it. What is the wind drift on a 500 yard shot? What about all these volleys of shots that I consistently hear during early deer rifle season. 4- 5 quick shots. ARE THE DEER RUNNING, ARE THEY AT THE SAME DEER? Slob hunting is slob hunting. It is safe to say there is more slob rifle hunters then bowhunters, yet I sense there is more outrage at the so called " unethical bowhunter" This is hypocritical and I 'm sensitive.

Bob

 

I was just addressing my thoughts pertaining to the archers.......although it doesn't matter what weapon your using....limitations are limitations. Exceeding your limitations purely for hope that you MIGHT be successful is wrong......regardless what you are shooting with. What I say doesn't matter and won't change anything.......people have since the beginning of time and will continue to exceed their limitations, it's like gambling, they just want to see if they'll win or not and not worry about the consequences. I've done it and I'll bet that anyone who has much experience in hunting has done it, it's not right to do and we all need to try our best to be as ethical as we can while hunting.

 

[bobbyo]

Jim,

True limitations are limitations, but there is a bias that promotes the myth that it is somehow easier to be unethical with a bow then it is with a rifle. I thought your post was continuing that bias. Here is a specific example of what I am talking about. I am hunting archery deer in Utah this year. Before I can buy a tag I have to take an Archery ethics coarse. This is fine. I hope I pass. Yet if I got a rifle tag or even a muzzleloader tag I don't have to take any classes. Why is ethics only needed for archers? Many people think that archers should have to pass some kind of shooting test to get a license. I am not against it as long as there is a test for every other weapon class. Archers should not be singled out as the only weapon class that needs better ethics and or regulations.

Bob

[bowsniper]

Maybe the guys who aren't capable of connecting at 500 yards are the lazy ones??!! Too lazy to go to the range to practice to improve their skills.

 

I've killed as far out as 565 yards to as close a 20 yards (with my bow.) It's all about what your limitations are, and the way you like to hunt. I long range practiced for years, and spent many hours ballistically mapping my rifle. I could have stalked closer, but connecting that far out on the first shot was an accomplishment that I worked hard for. And what about the lazy guys who sit salt? Just because someone doesn't hump 10 miles on their feet or sit and glass, they are lazy. Let me tell you, no lazy guy is going to sit in a tree for 13 hours. And there is nothing like the thrill of watching a buck at 20 yards.

 

Mark

[tjhunt2]

I've heard of bow hunters taking 80 yard shots too. Lazy Bass turds.

 

 

You could be throwing Glass in a Stone house, there CC. There is a time and a place for shots like that.... and it has nothing to do with lazy. There are some of the best archery hunters in the country that can and will make an ethical kill at those ranges in the right conditions or situations..... .... I call it, Planning for the Worst, & Practicing to be the Best. It is only Lazy if it is done by some one who has not prepared for that kind of an opportunity. There are always those type of "hunters" in the woods..... but don't group the good with the bad. My $.02!

 

+1

 

TJ

 

[uofahughes2]

You know what I really hate? When my evil alter ego hacks onto my computer around 2:30 in the morning, approximately 30 minutes or so after last call and makes random ignorant statements that fire up the CW watchdogs. Like many have alluded to, it really comes down to the hunter knowing the capabilities of ones gear and personal limitations. If you think about it a rifle shot and a bow shot are really no different, both are subjected to the same laws of physics. Heres a thought I had earlier and let me know what you guys think. Whats the difference between a 50 yard bow shot, and a 500 yard rifle shot? First off, its 10X longer, however your projectile is traveling 10X faster (thinking 300fps compared to 3000 fps). Theoretically, its essentially the same flight path, just magnified or extended. I realize none of this is breakthrough science or anything I was just thinking of a way to compare the two. I apologize if I stepped on anyones toes and I'll be the first to say I have tremendous respect for the people who practice with either and are capable of making those shots. Have a good day.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

You know what I really hate? When my evil alter ego hacks onto my computer around 2:30 in the morning, approximately 30 minutes or so after last call and makes random ignorant statements that fire up the CW watchdogs. Like many have alluded to, it really comes down to the hunter knowing the capabilities of ones gear and personal limitations. If you think about it a rifle shot and a bow shot are really no different, both are subjected to the same laws of physics. Heres a thought I had earlier and let me know what you guys think. Whats the difference between a 50 yard bow shot, and a 500 yard rifle shot? First off, its 10X longer, however your projectile is traveling 10X faster (thinking 300fps compared to 3000 fps). Theoretically, its essentially the same flight path, just magnified or extended. I realize none of this is breakthrough science or anything I was just thinking of a way to compare the two. I apologize if I stepped on anyones toes and I'll be the first to say I have tremendous respect for the people who practice with either and are capable of making those shots. Have a good day.

 

 

+1.... CC..... +1!!! Well said. BTW.... You hold your booze better than I do, cuz I was stone blind and passed out by like 10:30!! Buying that Ranger and installing a killer stereo system in it has turned me into a guy name, Al Coholic!

 

Jimbo,

 

I know what you meant and agree with what you said 100%!! I'd bet, we have all been too eager to "win" atleast once in our hunting careers... and it should be our goal to fight it within ourselves, whether we are carrying a Bow, a Rifle, or even when guiding someone else.

 

CnS

[COOSEFAN]

Jim,

True limitations are limitations, but there is a bias that promotes the myth that it is somehow easier to be unethical with a bow then it is with a rifle. I thought your post was continuing that bias. Here is a specific example of what I am talking about. I am hunting archery deer in Utah this year. Before I can buy a tag I have to take an Archery ethics coarse. This is fine. I hope I pass. Yet if I got a rifle tag or even a muzzleloader tag I don't have to take any classes. Why is ethics only needed for archers? Many people think that archers should have to pass some kind of shooting test to get a license. I am not against it as long as there is a test for every other weapon class. Archers should not be singled out as the only weapon class that needs better ethics and or regulations.

Bob

I completely agree with that....archers should not be singled out. I beleive it doesn't matter what your weapon is, the outcome is still the same and ethics should still have the same emphasis regardless the weapon used.

 

Hey Cowboy......did I meet you in the steakhouse last year during the Oct. hunts?

[tjhunt2]

I've heard of bow hunters taking 80 yard shots too. Lazy Bass turds.

 

Heck, 80 yards is the new 50 There are a bunch of folks out there right now that "launch" arrows as soon as they near that 100 yard mark It sickens me to see it or hear about it........total lack of respect for the animal and the image of bowhunting, and is only done becuase people are so eager to impress and be successful...regardless of how they achieve it! I do know a few folks and have guided a few that truely are capable of taking a 80 yard shot. These folks practice religiously and can group arrows tighter at 80 than most can at 30. Like has been said before, sometimes that once in a lifetime buck or bull may hang up at 80 yards........if that's within your range and you're confident, consistent and are able to range the critter.....then take the shot. OTHERWISE letdown and get closer....no reason to chance wounding a critter......and if you still feel like flingin' an arrow just to see where it hits, then you need to take up bowling and get out of my woods! What it all boils down to is that we all know deep down inside what our limitations are and each one of us knows when we are exceeding our own limits and taking a chance at wounding an animal.......it's not fair to the animal or the sport by taking chances like that. There's my $.02 JIM>

 

Hold on their partner. Why would a 80 yard bow shot sicken you more than a 500 yard rifle shot? There is a bunch of people on this very sight that fire away as soon as they get to the 500 yard mark or more. They even brag about it. What is the wind drift on a 500 yard shot? What about all these volleys of shots that I consistently hear during early deer rifle season. 4- 5 quick shots. ARE THE DEER RUNNING, ARE THEY AT THE SAME DEER? Slob hunting is slob hunting. It is safe to say there is more slob rifle hunters then bowhunters, yet I sense there is more outrage at the so called " unethical bowhunter" This is hypocritical and I 'm sensitive.

Bob

 

I was just addressing my thoughts pertaining to the archers.......although it doesn't matter what weapon your using....limitations are limitations. Exceeding your limitations purely for hope that you MIGHT be successful is wrong......regardless what you are shooting with. What I say doesn't matter and won't change anything.......people have since the beginning of time and will continue to exceed their limitations, it's like gambling, they just want to see if they'll win or not and not worry about the consequences. I've done it and I'll bet that anyone who has much experience in hunting has done it, it's not right to do and we all need to try our best to be as ethical as we can while hunting.

 

Jim, how right you are. I'm sure most of us have been there and I preach this all the time but most will experience it like we all did and hopefully they will learn a very valuable ethical lesson.

 

TJ

[Outdoor Writer]

I beleive it doesn't matter what your weapon is, the outcome is still the same and ethics should still have the same emphasis regardless the weapon used.

 

If it's legal, it's ethical. -TONY

[tjhunt2]

I beleive it doesn't matter what your weapon is, the outcome is still the same and ethics should still have the same emphasis regardless the weapon used.

 

If it's legal, it's ethical. -TONY

 

I'm surprised you said that Tony. If you believe that then the global warming has now affected you to.

Just my opinion!

 

TJ

 

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

I beleive it doesn't matter what your weapon is, the outcome is still the same and ethics should still have the same emphasis regardless the weapon used.

 

If it's legal, it's ethical. -TONY

 

 

Tony,

 

I think the point you are not addressing with that statement is that there is a difference between Morally Ethical and Legally Ethical. There is a difference to me, anyhow, and if we all chose the high road more often then we (hunters) would look less the bad guy in the eyes of those folks that are on the fence.... Knowing and Staying within your (and your equipment's) limitations can & will make you a better and more Morally Ethical hunter. IMO. And that I believe is what most of the guys are saying as well.

[Outdoor Writer]

I beleive it doesn't matter what your weapon is, the outcome is still the same and ethics should still have the same emphasis regardless the weapon used.

 

If it's legal, it's ethical. -TONY

 

 

Tony,

 

I think the point you are not addressing with that statement is that there is a difference between Morally Ethical and Legally Ethical. There is a difference to me, anyhow, and if we all chose the high road more often then we (hunters) would look less the bad guy in the eyes of those folks that are on the fence.... Knowing and Staying within your (and your equipment's) limitations can & will make you a better and more Morally Ethical hunter. IMO. And that I believe is what most of the guys are saying as well.

 

The only point I'm addressing is the one several members consistently state here. The words speak for themselves -- "if it's legal, it's ethical." I can't recall who first coined that phrase .

 

Besides, there is NO such thing as "Legally Ethical." If something is illegal, ethics do not come into the picture, lawful conduct does. Ethics involve issues OUTSIDE of those proscribed by law -- a self-regulating system of proper conduct.

 

TJ,

 

It was SARCASM, thus the . -TONY

[Snapshot]

Moral fiber is something that comes from within.

Last year I was bowhunting elk in New Mexico and I called in a nice 5 x 5 and he hung up at 70 yards and I could not get him to come in closer. There was 5 minutes of shooting light left and I had him broadside at 70 yards. I chose not to shoot. 70 yards is outside my accurate range and I won't take a shot over 50 yards on elk.

I know guys that are very good at longe range archery shots, ( I am not one of them), I also know guys that are very good at long range rifle shots that practice religiously at 500-600 yards.

I don't mean to sound philisophical, but common sense is just as important as ethics, knowing what our personal limitations are and when not to shoot. In my youth I took alot of shots that I shouldn't have, and wounded some animals, one of which suffered a great deal before I could dispatch it. I promised myself I would never do that to an animal again.

You have all probably seen or heard some guys out in the field that will open fire at deer that are 600 yards out and they will reload their magazine twice while the deer is still running away or maybe dragging itself with a leg that has been blown off, or maybe the guts are hanging out.?

Last season I heard a guy shoot 7 or 8 times, and I met up with him while he was riding his quad with a 60 lb. spike whitetail that was blasted to pieces lashed to the rack, a rifle still slung over his shoulder and a beer in the other hand, 9:00 a.m in the morning, this guy is the poster boy for the morally and legally unethical.

[Schmitty]

How tight are the better archer's groups (consistently) at 80 yards? I need to go to a tournament or two and watch some of these guys in action.

 

I'm just asking as I'm a very average shot. I usually shoot 4 shot groups at 60 yards (longest I can shoot w/ my current range setup) and I'd say the (average) spread at the widest point in my group is usually around 6". Some times I can suck them all in together and other times I pull a shot and get a flyer.

 

I'm sure that there are guys that can shoot better groups consistently at 80-90 yards than I can at 60.

 

Shooting 5 shot groups at 500 yards prone with a harris bipod, my groups at 500 yards are usually in that same 6" range,

 

In theory, my archery shooting at 60 yards is equal to my abilities with a rifle at 500 yards. Despite the bullet traveling another 44o yards, it will still impact the target before the arrow would at 60 yards. The bullet would also hit the animal long before the sound arrived unlike an arrow.

 

While living in CO, I flung a few arrows at antelope at the 65 yard mark using my old noisy setup. Those goats would put 2 body lenths between themselves and the arrow by the time it finally arrived. With my new setup (much quieter and faster), the results might have been a little different

 

What does this rambling really mean?

 

For me, my personal limit shooting at animals in ideal conditions tops out around 50 yards with a bow and around 500 yards with my rifle and personally I'd trust my abilities with the rifle at 500 (given a solid rest and minimal wind) over flinging a stick at 60 yards.

 

There are certainly guys out there who are so skilled that there is no ethical/moral dilemna with them shooting at extended distances. (Depends on how you define "fair chase" I guess.)

 

I think that the real danger with LR hunting becoming the new "fad" is that alot of young/inexperienced hunters watch these videos/shows or read on the internet where folks are killing animals at extreme distances. Rather than sharpening their skills with the gear they already own, they think that all they have to do is go down and buy a .300 ultra and a ballistic compensating scope and that they too are ready to roll at long ranges.

 

Just my personal thoughts,

Schmitty

[uofahughes2]

+1.... CC..... +1!!! Well said. BTW.... You hold your booze better than I do, cuz I was stone blind and passed out by like 10:30!! Buying that Ranger and installing a killer stereo system in it has turned me into a guy name, Al Coholic!

 

Jimbo,

 

I know what you meant and agree with what you said 100%!! I'd bet, we have all been too eager to "win" atleast once in our hunting careers... and it should be our goal to fight it within ourselves, whether we are carrying a Bow, a Rifle, or even when guiding someone else.

 

CnS

 

 

Hey CnS thanks. Apparently I didn't hold it very well haha after looking at a few very erroneous statements made by my evil twin!!!

 

Jimbo, how appropriate you would recall that we met at the bar (steakhouse) in Sonoita on this very topic. I believe you were with Jason Scott and two others who I don't recall names of, but you guys had had a heck of a weekend, and I had just helped my buddy kill his first buck ever. Friday nights evil doings where at the hands of the good ol Longhorn. It's quite the place. Welcome to Buckeye!