Favorite Elk Bullet? Average shot distance in AZ?

[RimCountry350]

51 minutes ago, rossislider said:

I'm going to play devil's advocate with you here. Watch this video of this shot taken at 170 yards by a very capable shooter (me, LOL). Shot placement looks pretty good right? As shown in the picture below, the bullet hit perfectly behind the shoulder. Dead bull right? NOPE!

6 hours, 4 miles, and 3 additions rounds (all 4 of which were from 210 grain Berger VLD bullets out of my 300 RUM) directly to his vitals area before he finally went down. That first shot hit a rib and the bullet blew up like a grenade. While the rib broke, it did not penetrate the vitals. 

Shot placement is critical, but with a crap bullet, it doesn't matter.

 

Can't say I disagree with you (great bull btw).  My thoughts would be your shot seemed perfect but then the video shows was quartered away from you (at least that what it looks like from the video, not sure of the camera had a different angle than your shot?).  If the shot was quartered away, then that shot becomes more difficult in my opinion.  Again, I don't dispute the importance of the ammo, I just think sometimes there is so much information out there it can make peoples heads spin and you end up over analyzing.  Just find a good bullet and know your limitations, maybe that's what I was trying to say.  And by the way I don't consider myself an expert marksman and I've missed my fair share of game, I just wanted to offer my humble opinion LOL. 

[WHT_MTNMAN]

1 hour ago, rossislider said:

I'm going to play devil's advocate with you here. Watch this video of this shot taken at 170 yards by a very capable shooter (me, LOL). Shot placement looks pretty good right? As shown in the picture below, the bullet hit perfectly behind the shoulder. Dead bull right? NOPE!

6 hours, 4 miles, and 3 additions rounds (all 4 of which were from 210 grain Berger VLD bullets out of my 300 RUM) directly to his vitals area before he finally went down. That first shot hit a rib and the bullet blew up like a grenade. While the rib broke, it did not penetrate the vitals. 

Shot placement is critical, but with a crap bullet, it doesn't matter.

 

My 300 ultra with 210 bergers have killed over 25 elk in the last 10 years from 25 yards to 870 without any problems at all. IMO you hit too far forward with your bull quartered away that hard. No way you were going to hit lungs. My .02 

I know there are many bullets as good or better but the Berger does just fine with good placement.

[Hoss50]

I wont talk bad about Berger bullets, but shot placement is key. I have killed 2 cow elk with Bergers, and watched 2 others go down from them too. None of them have exited, but most were smaller calibers. 257 weatherby and 6.5x55. 

I will say I would not shoulder shoot elk with Bergers, and I have started looking at other bullets for elk, especially if I get a bull tag. 

I have been looking towards Barnes TTSX, and I plan to try some Hammers.

[rossislider]

57 minutes ago, WHT_MTNMAN said:

My 300 ultra with 210 bergers have killed over 25 elk in the last 10 years from 25 yards to 870 without any problems at all. IMO you hit too far forward with your bull quartered away that hard. No way you were going to hit lungs. My .02 

I know there are many bullets as good or better but the Berger does just fine with good placement.

Our whole group (me included) was on the same page with you, but once we saw the animal on the ground, hide removed, where the bullet hit, how it didn't clear the rib, etc. it didn't matter that the bullet might have been a bit forward. After inspecting the animal, I don't think it was too far forward, even considering the angle. Moreover, two of the other four bullets fired had similar results on the opposite side. I wouldn't believe it either had I not seen and felt the holes and impact damage in person. I have also used Berger for many years and on many animals (not as many as you), just not a bull this big. 

Really all of that (forward or back) is irrelevant, because the bullet didn't make it past the first rib, and isn't something I would consider using on a comparable animal again. 

I totally appreciate that your experience is different. As someone I respect greatly and look up to a great deal, I love hearing your take. But for me and my group, I won't risk it with these bullets on a bull hunt. 

[CatfishKev]

27 minutes ago, rossislider said:

Our whole group (me included) was on the same page with you, but once we saw the animal on the ground, hide removed, where the bullet hit, how it didn't clear the rib, etc. it didn't matter that the bullet might have been a bit forward. After inspecting the animal, I don't think it was too far forward, even considering the angle. Moreover, two of the other four bullets fired had similar results on the opposite side. I wouldn't believe it either had I not seen and felt the holes and impact damage in person. I have also used Berger for many years and on many animals (not as many as you), just not a bull this big. 

Really all of that (forward or back) is irrelevant, because the bullet didn't make it past the first rib, and isn't something I would consider using on a comparable animal again. 

I totally appreciate that your experience is different. As someone I respect greatly and look up to a great deal, I love hearing your take. But for me and my group, I won't risk it with these bullets on a bull hunt. 

Even though quartering away my thoughts the same, as yours. It didnt penetrate one rib?  I'm no ballistics guy by any stretch but I'd say you got a bad batch. One thing I've heard is if they are spire points you gotta make sure the little hole ain't clogged, but if it were I think it would more likely not expand and blow through rather then explode.  

[WHT_MTNMAN]

1 hour ago, rossislider said:

Our whole group (me included) was on the same page with you, but once we saw the animal on the ground, hide removed, where the bullet hit, how it didn't clear the rib, etc. it didn't matter that the bullet might have been a bit forward. After inspecting the animal, I don't think it was too far forward, even considering the angle. Moreover, two of the other four bullets fired had similar results on the opposite side. I wouldn't believe it either had I not seen and felt the holes and impact damage in person. I have also used Berger for many years and on many animals (not as many as you), just not a bull this big. 

Really all of that (forward or back) is irrelevant, because the bullet didn't make it past the first rib, and isn't something I would consider using on a comparable animal again. 

I totally appreciate that your experience is different. As someone I respect greatly and look up to a great deal, I love hearing your take. But for me and my group, I won't risk it with these bullets on a bull hunt. 

Trust me i know and with a bad experience you never want to run that risk. I just thought I would share that I have had very good results. Most of the elk were big bulls but a few cows as well.

I have a good buddy that has had the absolute worst luck with a certain broadhead but my experience has been just the opposite. If you mentally do not trust a bullet or broadhead there is no reason to use it...So many good alternatives out there.  I am so jealous of your bull though...so cool. I'm sure glad you were able to get him killed.

[WHT_MTNMAN]

Sean ask Ty about his dads bull with I believe a 375 H and H...man they are tough...

[HuntHarder]

Rossislider-  That would have been a great shot except the bull was quartering away it looks like.  I think the shot is forward of where you want to put it.  IMO it looks like the shot is almost a foot forward of where I would think is a double lung shot.  GREAT bull BTW.

[buffhunter]

My daughter has killed 2 bulls with my 280ai shooting 175eldx.  Both were pass throughs, one at 450 the other at 40 both got the job done.  

[Explorer]

4 hours ago, rossislider said:

I'm going to play devil's advocate with you here. Watch this video of this shot taken at 170 yards by a very capable shooter (me, LOL). Shot placement looks pretty good right? As shown in the picture below, the bullet hit perfectly behind the shoulder. Dead bull right? NOPE!

6 hours, 4 miles, and 3 additions rounds (all 4 of which were from 210 grain Berger VLD bullets out of my 300 RUM) directly to his vitals area before he finally went down. That first shot hit a rib and the bullet blew up like a grenade. While the rib broke, it did not penetrate the vitals. 

Shot placement is critical, but with a crap bullet, it doesn't matter.

 

Goegeous bull. Glad you were able to recover and tag it!

[rossislider]

2 hours ago, WHT_MTNMAN said:

Sean ask Ty about his dads bull with I believe a 375 H and H...man they are tough...

Been a while since I heard the story and I don't recall. I will have to ask him. 

[trphyhntr]

Nosler partition 

[wildwoody]

I use 300rum with 165 Barnes tssx, no problems out to 800yrds that's as far as I'll try..

[Jlreff]

I run Barnes TTSX from twenty to four hundred yards. Had same problem with Bergers and other bullets. Shot a cou es with a 25-06 never made it thru the elbow joint.

[firstcoueswas80]

1 hour ago, Jlreff said:

I run Barnes TTSX from twenty to four hundred yards. Had same problem with Bergers and other bullets. Shot a cou es with a 25-06 never made it thru the elbow joint.

If ya shot him in the elbow, no bullet was going to make that a lethal hit.