? On Muzzleloaders reg change.

[grey curse]

Did not want to steal  MDarea33 thread so I’ll start this debate.  My question is, with all these high performance ie. 300-700 yard Muzzleloaders being built, how long till az matches Colorado and Utah “ primitive” muzzleloader rules.  Now I’m no expert on the these two states rules but I believe it’s iron sites only, which in that case no need to drop 3-5k on a 200 yard muzzleloader.  Would hate to build one for az G&F to change regs in a yr or so.   Thinking of building one is the reason for the question.  

[muledeerarea33?]

Don’t worry about my thread. The reason I didn’t want to spend the money is partly your concern. However I’d like 4-500 yards with energy to spare. If regs change it won’t be this year and probably not next.

[johnrr65]

5 hours ago, muledeerarea33? said:

Don’t worry about my thread. The reason I didn’t want to spend the money is partly your concern. However I’d like 4-500 yards with energy to spare. If regs change it won’t be this year and probably not next.

+1

[Edge]

10 hours ago, grey curse said:

Did not want to steal  MDarea33 thread so I’ll start this debate.  My question is, with all these high performance ie. 300-700 yard Muzzleloaders being built, how long till az matches Colorado and Utah “ primitive” muzzleloader rules.  Now I’m no expert on the these two states rules but I believe it’s iron sites only, which in that case no need to drop 3-5k on a 200 yard muzzleloader.  Would hate to build one for az G&F to change regs in a yr or so.   Thinking of building one is the reason for the question.  

Nothing prevents you from using your build in a rifle season. 

I solely used my Thompson Renegade sidelock .50 last cow season and the hunt was like getting reschooled in the 1850s.

I know it's unpopular but I totally agree with state regs pushing back on modern rifle optics on muzzleloaders.

I don't necessarily agree with iron sights though, since tubes were period optics in the 19th century. I guess shooting accurately out past 200 yards is unfair too?

http://www.namlhunt.com/mlscopes.html

[yotebuster]

I had a really really primo NV muzzy tag this year and used a LR muzzy with iron sights.  It still helped having a suped up gun for a couple reasons.

 1:  the drop out to 250 is about the same as a30-06 so I can put it right on that far out and level with their back at 300.

 2:  the energy is the same as a 300 win mag so if you do take a 300 yard open sight shot and you hit an elk in the shoulder blade, you’re gonna pile him up.

 3.  My gun shoots sub moa and it does make a big difference, even with iron sights to put the error all on your shoulders and remove as much as you can from the gun.  

I was able to keep softball groups out to 250 with a rear peep and front globe.  Paper plate to 350.  The site picture was the most critical thing, having the light right to see what you’re aiming at.  My max range for the hunt was 350 if it was a buck on an open hillside with good backlight and contrast.  150 yards if light was bad.  It really was fun getting ready for that hunt, more like practicing for a bowhunt for muscle memory then a rifle hunt where I site in and verify dope and then go hunting.  Ended up shooting my buck at 120 yards but he was chest on and light was low so I feel the practice made it happen.  

[yotebuster]

One more add, if they go to regs like Wa ID or OR I’m screwed.  Right now my gun is legal in every state I hunt muzzy seasons in when I get a chance (NV, UT, AZ,NM, CO, and ND).  Just have to pop the scope off and put the sights on for NV and CO and put the red dot on for ND.  

[bojangles]

i'd be for iron sights only.  Hope it doesn't ruffle feathers.  

 

Or at least rules against smokeless powder.  

 

I think it's an insult to muzzle loading enthusiasts with some of these in lines, topped with a scope, that shoot smokeless.  

 

i'm also against crossbows in archery season.  

 

but, i'm not going to start a war over these things.  

 

sometimes it's just good to see people getting out there.  

 

muzzle loading is a fine and honorable tradition, which i pursue at from time to time.  (and mostly fail, lol).  i'd like to see it remain an honorable tradition, and not go the way of big ego's and big money.  

[NOTAGS]

I heard a rumor AZGF was looking at doing away with a bunch of the muzzleloader tags and putting them into the general season for these very reasons.  Anyone else heard this?

[Big Browns]

I really hope Az G&F doesn't do this for one simple reason.  We already have enough regulations!  We don't need any more regulations!  Yes, a few people have long range muzzleloaders, but the percentage of those who do and those who don't is very different.  I still don't understand why this county continues to bend it's will to the minority of those pursuing anything!  I don't know why so many are up in arms about long range muzzleoaders anyway.  I almost guarantee those with a long range muzzleloader are much more accurate than those without.  

How about we start shaming people for their poor accuracy and not the distance they take animals!!!!

[trphyhntr]

 dont they load them with a brass casing now just like a regular rifle? Remington ultimate muzzleloader or something like that. I don’t see why they need their own season 

[GreyGhost85]

Didn’t Utah lift the ban on modern muzzleloaders a couple years ago? I think you can use whatever there now. 1000 yard rifles and 100 yard bows are putting a much larger dent in game populations than the people with 500 yard muzzleloaders. I wouldn’t be surprised if they try to limit the technology used on muzzleloaders for hunting because there is no way to limit it on rifles and bows other than taking away the use of scopes or sights. 

[muledeerarea33?]

22 minutes ago, trphyhntr said:

 dont they load them with a brass casing now just like a regular rifle? Remington ultimate muzzleloader or something like that. I don’t see why they need their own season 

Still loaded at the muzzle, the brass case is just the ignition system. Like a modern day flint.

[dustin25]

I think no smokeless powder in muzzleloaders solves this

[Codywhi1]

Why don’t they make hunters use only a recurve or long bow in archery season too while we are at it? 

[grey curse]

On 2/9/2020 at 1:14 PM, bojangles said:

i'm also against crossbows in archery season.

Crossbows in archery season can only be used if they have a camp permit.   
 

 

42 minutes ago, dustin25 said:

think no smokeless powder in muzzleloaders solves this

I agree    This should be the only restriction.   
 
thanks for all the reply’s.  Thinking I’ll just use the rem uml and put a arrowhead breach plug with a MZ-Rex brake followed by a Timney trigger and call it good.