71 yrs old with 19 bonus points, what unit for a Bull

[Northern Pintail]

22 hours ago, Delw said:

you guys put too much into the point game.  4-5 years ago I put in for elk again we got 3 years in a row early archery bull I got 1st tag gave to kid, next year daughter got tag then the following year I got tag and gave it to kid. before that would get a rifle bull elk tag about every 2-3 years always the same units. from the 80s to mid 90's I got 3 bull elk tags but put in when I had someone to put in with. only went on 2 hunts elk dotn do anything for me lol

rifle Antelope the same way back in 97 98 and 2001 same unit think those were the years gave the daughter the last one.

My system is easy I put in what I want to hunt and where I want to hunt. if I dont get drawn no biggy if I do fantastic I got yote hunting and archery deer much better and funner.

only tag I really wanted from day one is a ram tag. been putting in since the 80s, the others are just fillers

now that I dont have any kids to give tags too anymore I probably wont draw another tag.

When non residents only get 10% they almost have to rely on points.  Think early archery 9 where only 10 permits go to nonresidents.   Most early rifle hunts give only 3.     

[Northern Pintail]

Hate to bring more bad news but you’ll probably never catch max for an early rifle tag.   Probably won’t catch early archery 9 either.  
 

if you really want a tag this year your best bet is an archery tag or a late rifle tag.  Several units can produce good bulls in the late hunt but can be very strenuous. 
 

a question I haven’t seen is what type of bull would you be happy with?

[GoldToyBox]

Hey Guys thanks for all the input but I really didn't want to start any arguments.

Pintail, I've taken a couple of 6 pt bulls, a few rag horns/spikes and lots of cows.   I would really love something larger ( a toad) to end my days of AZ hunting.  (might sneak back for Javelina?)

But it's not just about Horns, I want some good memories of my last days on the mountain.  I still climb the mountains but they just keep getting taller every year.  It took me a month to recover from Colorado last year.

Someone else asked if I planned to use a guide, Yes.  With 19 pts on the line I need to get it right and can't learn an area with just a little pre season scouting.

From my research from the info you fellas gave me and talking with others.  I can just about pick any late season Archery tag, I have no chance at any early rifle hunt with the possible exception of 17A.  Anyone see it different?

Early Muzzleloader Unit 22 looks possible and Unit 10 should be 100%.  Not seeing any other opportunities. 

Early Archery Unit 3A3C looks possible, along with Units 17a, 1, 15a.  I welcome any input if you see something I'm not seeing or understanding.

I haven't done any research yet on which units are the most promising, right now only looking for Units I know I can draw a tag.   Hopefully "point creep" and/or a sudden interest in the unit that I apply for doesn't derail my plans and hopes.  Only takes a mention in a magazine or blog to get folks all looking at the same unit.

Wish everyone a Happy New Year filled with limited entry tags.

 

 

 

[thegunsmith2506]

6 hours ago, GoldToyBox said:

Hey Guys thanks for all the input but I really didn't want to start any arguments.

Pintail, I've taken a couple of 6 pt bulls, a few rag horns/spikes and lots of cows.   I would really love something larger ( a toad) to end my days of AZ hunting.  (might sneak back for Javelina?)

But it's not just about Horns, I want some good memories of my last days on the mountain.  I still climb the mountains but they just keep getting taller every year.  It took me a month to recover from Colorado last year.

Someone else asked if I planned to use a guide, Yes.  With 19 pts on the line I need to get it right and can't learn an area with just a little pre season scouting.

From my research from the info you fellas gave me and talking with others.  I can just about pick any late season Archery tag, I have no chance at any early rifle hunt with the possible exception of 17A.  Anyone see it different?

Early Muzzleloader Unit 22 looks possible and Unit 10 should be 100%.  Not seeing any other opportunities. 

Early Archery Unit 3A3C looks possible, along with Units 17a, 1, 15a.  I welcome any input if you see something I'm not seeing or understanding.

I haven't done any research yet on which units are the most promising, right now only looking for Units I know I can draw a tag.   Hopefully "point creep" and/or a sudden interest in the unit that I apply for doesn't derail my plans and hopes.  Only takes a mention in a magazine or blog to get folks all looking at the same unit.

Wish everyone a Happy New Year filled with limited entry tags.

 

 

 

I would pick a guide that can give you some good references and let them help you decide. 

[yotebuster]

I think a lot of people are way underestimating what kind of point creep is going on with NR draw.  People scoff about a late rifle tag with 19 points, but if the guy was fixed on gun hunting that’s truly his only option.  As a matter of fact that just barely puts him into the bonus pass for 23 late rifle.  I know a guy that burned 20 NR points for a 23 late rifle tag.   It’s to the point now where there is such a large amount of NR apps that point creep is generalized across the board.  My family all has 11 points as NR and could have drawn 4b early archery back when it took 7 points.  Back then 3c took 11 so they were gonna hold off.  Now they can barely draw 4b again and I would guess within a year or two it’ll be out of reach to them.  I have a lifetime license so I’m out of that mess and am grateful for it.  I don’t think most AZ residents know how good they have it, even the late rifle tags, particularly in units that are glassable allow you a chance at a bull that you truly can’t kill in most other states.  Yes NM has some decent bulls if you can beat the odds.  Utah and NV both offer you one chance a lifetime at a good one.  WY will get you a chance at a 300-320 bull if you give them a decade or so of your life, but AZ hunts, even late hunts are truly special and more or less these days once in a lifetime.   Even if you are a conscientious objector to math, unfortunately there’s no hiding from the fact that it’s a tough draw no matter what.  The smartest thing you can do is be realistic and think outside the box.  I never ever put in for the “best” hunt in a state or area.  I analyze the living heck out of the numbers too.  It’s gotten me 6-7 extremely good elk tags, two world class mule deer tags, a mountain goat tag, two AZ antelope tags, ibex, oryx, muskox,  two free range buffalo and two shiras moose tags. Had I blindly put the “best” hunt down in each state, I likely wouldn’t have ever drawn a single one of those.  Math is important stuff and being realistic is more important.  To the OP, you’re on the right track, if you’re hung up on rifle then I’d do 23n late rifle.  If muzzy, the only early tags you could draw are in rough rough places like 21 and 22S.  I personally wouldn’t put 22n for any weapon.   The unit 10 muzzy tag you stated is a November hunt and a tough one at that.   You can draw a bunch of different early archery tags, any one would be the best elk experience in the world if you’re ok with a bow.  These can all be physically easy as well as most of the units above the rim are pretty flat.   Look into the outfitters for 3c archery and maybe the ground pounders for 23 late rifle.  I don’t know them but they knock down some of the biggest bulls in the state on that hunt.  Although I did hear they were getting $15k for a hunt, not sure if that’s true or not.  Worth a call to them for sure.  

[ThomC]

Well heck if you are going to hire a guide then pick a guide and ask him where to put in.  There are really good bulls in every ELK unit.  It is a lottery you know and every year you wait the harder it is to win.  You want the best experience the early archery hunt is in my opinion the best.

[AZJR]

It's tough drawing bull tags even if you are an AZ resident. I have applied for elk every year for the past 34 years as a resident and have drawn a total of 7 elk tags, 5 of which were bull tags, all early archery tags. That's an average of nearly 5 years per tag. 

If I were 71 (not there yet but it's off in the not so distant future now) and had a hike or two or three left in me I'd be dang happy with an archery bull tag in 7W. It's super pretty country with varied terrain, lots of space to find a fine bull and have an adventure. Hiring a guide would increase the likelihood of taking a better bull I'd think for a NR archer not familiar with the unit, but 7W is doable DIY if necessary. Wherever you end up applying for, I wish you good luck in the draw and go find a bull that fulfills your dreams.

[clintb]

I’m a resident, have 21 points. I always said I would be happy if I drew an early rifle tag before 40, well that’s come and gone. If someone had told me I would have to wait this long to hunt elk, I would have never started putting in for the damned early rifle hunts! When I draw, it’s a once in a lifetime hunt for me, I will hire a guide. If I were in your shoes, it would all come down to my health. I know 70 year olds who can hike all day, and 70 year olds who can barely check the mail. If you feel good, and doc says you’re good, keep trying for early rifle, hire a guide or bring some boys along and make the best of it! 

[SHOOTER]

Instead of a guide it might a be good idea and cheaper to find a resident that knows a unit with a handful of points,join apps with them and help them pull a late rifle tag in exchange to help you on the hunt. Win,Win. Just make sure you guys got your min points to draw and points average figured out. Just food for thought. 

[Markleo21377]

On 1/27/2020 at 7:58 PM, GoldToyBox said:

I give up, the point creep & AZ non resident rules keeps leaving me short of drawing a Bull tag for one of the premium units.

AZ Game Dept used to publish the draw odds by point and by unit by species but I can't find them this year?   Only finding the general draw odds by unit.

Can someone with access to the data tell me what units I can draw a tag for 2020  (Trailhead or Toprut or ??)  or point me to a site with the info?

I'm 71 yrs old and don't have many more years where I can get to the top of the mountain.  So this year I want to draw a AZ Bull tag.

I would prefer a Rifle tag but Archery is not out of the question.  

Any assistance is very much appreciated. 

Goldtoybox,

In my opinion I would put in for 22 north early rifle first choice and 22 south muzzleloader 2nd choice. If you draw I will help you kill the caliber of bull you are looking for. I know both units extremely well and had 22 south muzzleloader last year. 

I am not a guide just love hunting and helping people out as I find it always is reciprocated in some way. I live less than 2 hours away and am glad to help you from running cameras, scouting, to hunting with you and helping pack your elk out. PM me if you want more info, Mark

[Big Browns]

Whatever you do, do NOT spend 19 points on a late archery tag.  Don't get me wrong, some of the late archery hunts can be good,  but overall they suck for any type of good bull.  Yes, some great bulls are taken each year on these hunts, but as I said overall they don't produce good bulls.  I HIGHLY recommend a later rifle bull hunt in 27, 1, 23, 3A/3c.  Especially if you are hiring a guide.

[Flatlander]

On 2/6/2020 at 10:50 AM, Big Browns said:

Whatever you do, do NOT spend 19 points on a late archery tag.  Don't get me wrong, some of the late archery hunts can be good,  but overall they suck for any type of good bull.  Yes, some great bulls are taken each year on these hunts, but as I said overall they don't produce good bulls.  I HIGHLY recommend a later rifle bull hunt in 27, 1, 23, 3A/3c.  Especially if you are hiring a guide.

I would rather have a unit 1 late archery tag than a 3a3c late rifle tag any day.

[GoldToyBox]

Hello Everyone

Thanks for all the advice and Info.  My buddy decided to apply with me but he has less points.

We ended up applying for Unit 22 south early Muzzleloader and Unit 1 early archery.   Hopefully we will be in AZ this fall.

Again thanks to everyone on this post.

 

[firstcoueswas80]

That completely goes against what you were asking for. 

 

Applying with somebody who has fewer points than you drags your point number down as well.

[GoldToyBox]

18 minutes ago, firstcoueswas80 said:

That completely goes against what you were asking for. 

 

Applying with somebody who has fewer points than you drags your point number down as well.

With 19pts or 17pts the same units were available (per Toprut & Gohunt).  Only exception was Unit 3 early archery which dropped to less than 30% chance.  Allows me to hunt with my buddy (hopefully).  There were some other hunts but they conflict with scheduled huntin or fishin trips in other states.

Wishing everyone a great season filled with limited entry tags!