horses in elk unit

[LifeFeedsOnLife]

They're already petitioning for an overpass over Bush highway. They're lunacy has no bounds.

[PRDATR]

9 hours ago, AZ8 said:

https://www.azfamily.com/news/fencing-project-to-protect-salt-river-horses-sparks-controversy/article_2a9b3fea-3666-11ea-9ab6-07dcfa745ed4.html 

 

There was a snivet about this earlier in the week on NPR and mention that she wanted a bridge built for the horses to use but that was considered to be too costly and there wasn't funding for that to happen anytime in the future.

[CatfishKev]

17 hours ago, AZ8 said:

Lol, I think that old lady also tried to slow me down one day. Must have been 20 cars parked in a bunch right across from the Pobrecito overflow staging lot. I laid on the horn as I passed all those idiots! People scattered, horses just kept grazing! lmao!

When I have an old bag try to slow me down I just act like I think they are waving at me and I smile and wave back.  The look they make is usually priceless.  

[PRDATR]

33 minutes ago, CatfishKev said:

When I have an old bag try to slow me down I just act like I think they are waving at me and I smile and wave back.  The look they make is usually priceless.  

Only thing worse than a crazy cat lady is a crazy horse lady.

[trphyhntr]

13 minutes ago, PRDATR said:

Only thing worse than a crazy cat lady is a crazy horse lady.

Scientific studies have been done and this is true 

[HyNoon]

What if they are both?  ⬆️

[NOTAGS]

Can we put Simone Netherlands and Greta Thunberg  both in a vacuum chamber and suck the stupid out of them?

[PRDATR]

1 hour ago, HyNoon said:

What if they are both?  ⬆️

Then just pray she doesn't have red hair.

[MT_Sourdough]

While reading this, I was getting fired up to add my 2 cents, but then Koozcrazy stole some of my thunder.  To expand upon his knowledge about 4 stomach chambers of a cow versus the single stomach chamber of a horse,  well in the end, horse chit and cow chit are very, very different.  The efficiency of a cows 4 stomach chambers produces manure that is fantastic fertilizer.  Harrow cow manure into the fields every spring and yield great hay harvest.   On the other hand horse manure is hot and can kill grass.  Several years of my youth had a lot to do with hay.  So that is one thing.

As far as which is more destructive, that depends on the terrain.  Cattle do more damage in high riparian areas.  In the hot summer days, cattle linger in high cool moist riparian areas and ruin them.  They will do big damage to ground, vegetation, and aquifer.  The sediments from the muddied water sources that eventually forms creeks can do great harm to the spawning beds and water oxygen that it can ruin creeks for healthy fish populations.  When elk numbers get too high, they can do the same sort of damage as cattle.  

On the other hand. cattle on public lands are moved around to theoretically allow an area to recover.   The horses, confined to a limited area will eventually overgraze and overbrowse an area till a once fertile area eventually looks like a barren desert landscape.

One more thing, to say horses that were "reintroduced"  are the same species as the horses that Europeans introduced is about the same thing as saying we are all still monkeys.

[PRDATR]

"

One more thing, to say horses that were "reintroduced"  are the same species as the horses that Europeans introduced is about the same thing as saying we are all still monkeys.

" How So? Have they "evolved" that much in 400 years? Just trying to understand where you are coming from.

[MT_Sourdough]

https://www.nps.gov/kova/blogs/ice-age-mammal-bones-of-northwest-alaska-1.htm

No, horses haven't evolved much over the last 400 years, (some breeds of modern horses have disappeared.) but  they have evolved over the last 12,000 years.  Since the last ice age when the earth was on a different axis and you can walk across an earth bridge from what were warm grass plains of Alaska to the warm grass plains of Siberia.  The ice age is gone.  The land bridge is gone.  Alaska grass plains have been replaced with tundra.  And those early horses as a species are long gone as well.

[muledeerarea33?]

I gotta agree about raw horse manure. But the cooked aerated stuff I get is excellent for my trees and gardens!

[MT_Sourdough]

2 minutes ago, muledeerarea33? said:

I gotta agree about raw horse manure. But the cooked aerated stuff I get is excellent for my trees and gardens!

Yep.  Left undisturbed on the ground in Montana. horse manure takes about 3 years before it becomes good fertilizer.  When harrowing the fields, we do our best to break up all horse manure and spread it with the cow manure.  Harrowing helps to diminish the negative impact.  The ground under undisturbed horse manure in the first and second year when you turn it over, is dead underneath.  Undisturbed, horse manure sticks to the ground and can keep the soil underneath dormant for 3 years, as a generalization.

  On the other hand, when left undisturbed, a cow patty will be lifted a 1/2 an inch to 2 inches by pale grasses by the month of July.  The grasses are pale because no direct sunlight.  The cow patty, lifted by grasses underneath will be broken up and in the fallowing year will have strong grass production where it has broken down. 

On top of all that,  If you lack bait for fishing, kick over a cow pie and help yourself to night crawlers and worms under and in the cow patty.  Not so for horse manure.

 

[muledeerarea33?]

11 minutes ago, MT_Sourdough said:

Yep.  Left undisturbed on the ground in Montana. horse manure takes about 3 years before it becomes good fertilizer.  When harrowing the fields, we do our best to break up all horse manure and spread it with the cow manure.  Harrowing helps to diminish the negative impact.  The ground under undisturbed horse manure in the first and second year when you turn it over, is dead underneath.  Undisturbed, horse manure sticks to the ground and can keep the soil underneath dormant for 3 years, as a generalization.

  On the other hand, when left undisturbed, a cow patty will be lifted a 1/2 an inch to 2 inches by pale grasses by the month of July.  The grasses are pale because no direct sunlight.  The cow patty, lifted by grasses underneath will be broken up and in the fallowing year will have strong grass production where it has broken down. 

On top of all that,  If you lack bait for fishing, kick over a cow pie and help yourself to night crawlers and worms under and in the cow patty.  Not so for horse manure.

 

Agree. There’s a reason why it’s easier to find processed horse manure than cow manure. 

[AZkiller]

Let's all get behind grizzly bear reintroduction for the salt, 3c and lake pleasant. They wouldn't be opposed to that right?