ThomC Report post Posted February 5, 2020 Ecology is not a hard science. Nobody has proved the benefits of wolves in today's society. AZ G&F has an Elk hunting season that is perfectly capable of controlling Elk populations. Do we need wolves to control cows? Who are the people that want wolves? The anti hunters. You can spout all of your subjective opinions and figures to convince the clueless politicians and judges who have never set foot in nature and that is all you got. And it is NOT science. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JSR Report post Posted February 5, 2020 15 hours ago, BusterAZ said: People that argue with Science are only fooling themselves. Ecology is a universal science and has been fact checked on various continents and nothing like politics in this country. Capitalists paid off politicians to push phony science and/or discredit valid scientific studies in favor of business profits. A concept like Tropic Cascade or the importance of apex predators in ecological terms are studied on various populations and have been reproduced with similar results. Almost all elk herds in the lower 48 are managed at population levels in favor of sport hunting instead of numbers that are lower and healthier for the ecosystem as a whole. This is the NA model of game management in a nutshell shell- create reliable populations that can sustain annual harvests by humans. Thanks for your insight, Bernie Sanders 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trphyhntr Report post Posted February 5, 2020 living in a generation that thinks bill nye is an actual scientist and fake news media promoting man made climate change. forgive me if i take anything called science with a grain of salt. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BusterAZ Report post Posted February 5, 2020 Bill Nye has a degree in mechanical engineering from Cornell. May I ask what degrees you hold? 30 minutes ago, trphyhntr said: living in a generation that thinks bill nye is an actual scientist and fake news media promoting man made climate change. forgive me if i take anything called science with a grain of salt. In 6th grade, ecology and climate change are taught at a deeper level of understanding than discussed here. Your comment is proof we failed to properly educate previous generations. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trphyhntr Report post Posted February 5, 2020 Didn’t know I was gonna hit a soft spot with Bill nye the mechanical engineering guy comment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muledeerarea33? Report post Posted February 5, 2020 I stayed at a holiday inn last night. Nuff said. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trphyhntr Report post Posted February 5, 2020 36 minutes ago, BusterAZ said: Bill Nye has a degree in mechanical engineering from Cornell. May I ask what degrees you hold? In 6th grade, ecology and climate change are taught at a deeper level of understanding than discussed here. Your comment is proof we failed to properly educate previous generations. All I said was I don’t believe everything I see or read because it says it’s from a scientist. I can see with your comments you have a bit of superiority complex 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JSR Report post Posted February 5, 2020 Having a degree in mechanical engineering is as meaningful to climate discussion as having a degree in ancient lesbian dance. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alpinebullwinkle Report post Posted February 5, 2020 I believe "science" also strongly supports the "survival of the fittest" philosophy. Unfortunately this philosophy does not align with wolves and their prey on elk and moose. For example..... there are many healthy mature bulls that are killed annually by wolf depredation. Wolfs prefer to hunt in packs, and it is very easy for two wolves to hamstring and eventually take down the strongest of bulls. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BusterAZ Report post Posted February 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Alpinebullwinkle said: I believe "science" also strongly supports the "survival of the fittest" philosophy. Unfortunately this philosophy does not align with wolves and their prey on elk and moose. For example..... there are many healthy mature bulls that are killed annually by wolf depredation. Wolfs prefer to hunt in packs, and it is very easy for two wolves to hamstring and eventually take down the strongest of bulls. Fittest in evolutionary terms does not always mean the strongest. The fittest elk could be one that behaviors differently like staying in cover more vs wide open spaces. Also, predatory influences affect fittest, so it could also be faster elk that is more fit in your scenario. Furthermore, it could well become the elk that are more resistant to CWD that are more. These are all hypotheticals, of course! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alpinebullwinkle Report post Posted February 5, 2020 "In 6th grade, ecology and climate change are taught at a deeper level of understanding than discussed here. Your comment is proof we failed to properly educate previous generations. " I cringe whenever people quote what is taught to our younger generation in schools nowdays. Some of it is definitely fiction, and key components to the issues (climate change) are often conveniently left out. For instance when I took an environmental engineering course about 1972 at U of A during the oil crisis my professor at the time stated "the world is running out of oil reserves". There seems to be no shortage 50 years later. But he could have been correct if we stopped searching and drilling for oil at the time. I consider his "quacking" as simply left wing politics very typical of the absurdity we hear on a daily basis today. Additionally we don't hear any rhetoric about "real legitimate" impacts about climate change like urbanization and recent catastrophic forest fires that most certainly are human caused heating impacts on the environment. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JSR Report post Posted February 5, 2020 The earth has been warming for 1,000's of years. 75% of North America was covered by glaciers, then they melted, many MANY years before anyone ever even thought of burning fossil fuels on a wide scale. When the govt says they have a solution for a "problem" that involves regulation and taxes look out.....here comes a scam. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost85 Report post Posted February 5, 2020 I was taught that Christopher Columbus discovered America and he and the Native Americans lived in perfect harmony. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AzDiamondHeat Report post Posted February 5, 2020 2 hours ago, BusterAZ said: Bill Nye has a degree in mechanical engineering from Cornell. May I ask what degrees you hold? In 6th grade, ecology and climate change are taught at a deeper level of understanding than discussed here. Your comment is proof we failed to properly educate previous generations. So 6th grade teachers are now the "experts" in ecology and "climate change"? If you are relying on our current public education system to "educate" your children, you are failing as a parent. However, since I am not an "expert" in these matters and I do not have an engineering degree to qualify me as a "scientist", please provide the fact based evidence you rely on for your opinion so that we can have a mature, adult discussion on the matter. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
photofool Report post Posted February 5, 2020 It has been my observation than the more degrees involved, the less common sense is demonstrated. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
