Couzer Report post Posted December 20, 2019 Starting a 25 Creedmoor build using 131 blackjack bullets. Anyone else have one? My goals on this rifle are: Kids, Wife and myself to shoot it Mild Recoil Short Barrel 18”-20” Adjustable Stock AR style Accurate out to 750 yrds MTD chassis 40 moa base if i can find one Rings Undecided, Going with Zeiss Scope HD5 Tikka Action With stock trigger Preferred Barrel 18”-20” # contour spiral flute, threaded for Can. Going to have them flute the barrel out to a 18” in case i decide to cut off another 2” later on. Alpha brass Dies unkown at this time? Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Im going to have Southernexpress do the build. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuntHarder Report post Posted December 20, 2019 Be careful with a 40 MOA base. Sometimes those 1" scopes do not have enough adjustment to get a zero at a reasonable range. Do not forget to put in the 10$ spring in the Tikka trigger. Makes them a pretty nice inexpensive trigger. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHT_MTNMAN Report post Posted December 20, 2019 I'm very happy with my 25 CM from Todd. 131 Ace flat out awesome. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Couzer Report post Posted December 20, 2019 1 hour ago, HuntHarder said: Be careful with a 40 MOA base. Sometimes those 1" scopes do not have enough adjustment to get a zero at a reasonable range. Do not forget to put in the 10$ spring in the Tikka trigger. Makes them a pretty nice inexpensive trigger. Good to know about the spring, ill look into it for sure. I am still between the 20 and 40 but im think it might work. Maybe even a 30 moa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Couzer Report post Posted December 20, 2019 20 minutes ago, WHT_MTNMAN said: I'm very happy with my 25 CM from Todd. 131 Ace flat out awesome. Dang that looks sweet, like it alot. Thats what I’m looking for! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Huntnm2001 Report post Posted December 21, 2019 20 moa base will be plenty to get you out to your desired range. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Couzer Report post Posted December 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Huntnm2001 said: 20 moa base will be plenty to get you out to your desired range. Depends, im maxed out on my 300 rum and have a 20 on it. I know i could have done a 40 on it. I know its not comparing it apples to apples but my goal is to have minimum adjustment down when i mount the scope. I would like to “try” to punch paper targets out to 1000 plus. If i mount a 20 moa and still have a few complete turns down i think i would be not maximizing my scopes potential? Just a thought? Does that even makes sense? Anyways ive heard that the clearest part of the scope lens os in the middle as they polish the glass they start in the middle and work their way out to the edge. So that being said If my scope had a Minimum adjustment at 50 yrds maxed down and maxed out at 1200 yrds, the clearest point in the scope would be 575 yrds? Thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lancetkenyon Report post Posted December 21, 2019 I have shot my 6CM w. 105 Hyb out to 1500 yards with a 20MOA base and a scope with "only" 12 MIL elevation adjustment. No way you will need 40MOA rail for 750 yards with the 131 Blackjack. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Couzer Report post Posted December 21, 2019 Ahh thanks lance for chiming in. I agree but i guess is what im trying to say is if i could zero this rifle at 100 yards with a higher MOA base why wouldn’t you??? Again my tube is a 1” and not a 30mm so im limited on my moa adjustment. It just seems like there is alot of waisted moa or mils if you don’t maximze your moa is all? Shoot i might be maximizing it with a 20 moa? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lancetkenyon Report post Posted December 21, 2019 For your maximum effective range, 20 MOA will be plenty. I would think you should be able to hit 2750-2800ish if you run them fairly hot. So let's look at some numbers.... At 2750fps MV & 100 yards zero: (1800fps min velocity & 1000ft/lbs for deer) 6000' AMSL, 45°F, 20% humidity: 920+/- yards max range (to maintain 1800fps & 1000ft/lbs) only needs 23.25 MOA of come-up. Meaning with a 20 MOA rail, you will only be 3.25MOA above center. At 835 yards, you will be centered in your scope's elevation travel. So if you mount a Zeiss V5HD 3-15×44 (which is about perfect in my opinion for a hunting scope mag range out to 1200+ yards), you only have 70 MOA of elevation adjustment. Meaning a 40 MOA rail has the very real potential to not even allow a 100 yard zero on your rifle maxed out at the very bottom of your adjustment. You could still be 5MOA high at 100 yards,which would be 5.2" high. Making it more like a 230 yard zero +/-. You don't want to be sitting on the very bottom the entire life of the scope anyway. Even with a 20MOA rail, it is going to give you approximately 55MOA of elevation adjustment. Or approximately 1560 yards at the same environmental conditions I used before. If you absolutely HAVE to shoot over that, use subtensions for even more holdover. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
L Cazador Report post Posted December 21, 2019 Nice job that Lance did on exterior ballistics! A 20 MOA base will definitely work. I don't think your barrel length will work! Way too short to burn slow burning powders effectively and I will disagree with Lance on velocity. But if you do go with that barrel length of 20 inches watch out for the crack of the Sonic Boom! LoL!!The government may be calling to see what you're testing!! Especially now that we have a 6th Military force!! Also make sure you get the freebore worked out to accept the 131's. I did the 250 AI with 115g bullet many years ago and the minimum barrel length was 26". I did one with a 30 inch barrel and that worked very well. Not a hunting rifle of course. The only difference between 250AI and 25 Creedmoor is shoulder angle and body taper! I love the quarter bore! Let us know how it works out. I'm curious! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lancetkenyon Report post Posted December 22, 2019 Not quite apples to apples, but I have loaded a bunch of 6.5CM w. 130s and 20-22" barrels, and all get 2750-2850 easily. I have also loaded for 6CMs w. 115s, and they get them moving from 20-22" barrels from 2950-3100+. All of the above with H4350. RL16, RL23, RL26, are all supposedly getting even better speeds. So I feel you should be able to attain the velocities I predicted with a 20" barrel if you are not shy about it. Get SRP brass and run them hot. Conner G is running a 25CM and 131s. Ask him how he likes it. He is getting 2900ish fps, but not sure what his barrel length is. I also had a .250AI for years, with a 22" 1:10". I could get 3050fps w. 115 Bergers. There were only a few other bullets heavier back then. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Couzer Report post Posted December 22, 2019 It will be definitely interesting on what the 40 moa will hold at. I ordered the 40, 30, and the 20 and will return the 2 not needed. Honestly i will probably try to max the scope out, i would love to hit paper further than 1500yds. Its still tough to say what the velocity will be but I will post as soon as I get it ran through my chrono, hoping to get around 2700-2800 fps like you mentioned Lance. Todd does have the correct reamer to accept the 131’s. Last thing that I am waiting is the barrel. Houston I'm going to have to bug you for some load data if you don’t mind. Also what twist did you go with? I talked to Blackjack and he recommended the 1:7 with the short barrel. Pm or text me some data if you can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
L Cazador Report post Posted December 22, 2019 Yep. 7 twist should work. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lancetkenyon Report post Posted December 22, 2019 I agree, for a 25CM, I would go 1:7" too. I went 1:7.5" for my 26" 25SST since I am pushing them @ 3170 to 3280 depending on which load I ultimately decide on. Blackjack states 1:8" for 3300fps+. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
