Anyone know the family washed away in Tonto Basin?

[AZBIG10]

1 minute ago, AZLance said:

Dont spend any of my taxes on this Bridge to Nowhere!

You ever hunt the green backs?

[JSR]

Yes, it is 100% on the person(s) that decided to ignore the warnings and the barricades but hasn't the family lost enough without having to drag them through this?

 

My guess is the county is charging them and will offer a plea that includes agreeing not to sue. 

 

[stanley]

31 minutes ago, Saguaro said:

It has a lot to do with intentions.  With a gun, it’s hard to have innocent intentions. It also has a lot to do with what society feels justice is worth.  It serves justice to lock up the guy with a gun, weather or not there’s remorse his sentence will reflect.  A loving parent(s) that made a mistake and cost the lives of their kids, some would say you don’t need prison for that one to serve justice.  If they did what they did with malice, then they deserve prison.

Ugh.....   SO sad of a situation.  I cannot imagine what the parents have been living with and going through every day since.   

For me though, in addition to intent I think that there is a consideration negligence.  Whether malice existed or not, there can still be negligence.   I think it is quite obvious that the parents did not and would not 'intend' to hurt or kill their kids, but they absolutely crossed the creek with intent (not by accident).  The law may find that by intentionally crossing the creek under those conditions (ignoring barriers - however common that may or may not be by locals at that location), that they were in fact negligent in their actions resulting in the death of those children.  However crappy it is for the parents, I feel like the process should be followed through our legal/justice system to determine that.

I am not considering this as 'additional punishment' for the parents, but rather our system of laws and justice dealing with the situation as we would any other to come to a legal conclusion.  

[Flatlander]

10 minutes ago, stanley said:

Ugh.....   SO sad of a situation.  I cannot imagine what the parents have been living with and going through every day since.   

For me though, in addition to intent I think that there is a consideration negligence.  Whether malice existed or not, there can still be negligence.   I think it is quite obvious that the parents did not and would not 'intend' to hurt or kill their kids, but they absolutely crossed the creek with intent (not by accident).  The law may find that by intentionally crossing the creek under those conditions (ignoring barriers - however common that may or may not be by locals at that location), that they were in fact negligent in their actions resulting in the death of those children.  However crappy it is for the parents, I feel like the process should be followed through our legal/justice system to determine that.

I am not considering this as 'additional punishment' for the parents, but rather our system of laws and justice dealing with the situation as we would any other to come to a legal conclusion.  

So then should the adults who lead a family to Water Wheel for a swim be charged similarly (this was also in Gila County)? There are signs warning about flash floods:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2017/07/16/payson-flash-flood-results-four-deaths/482805001/

How about the family who let another family stay in their cabin that didn't have a carbon monoxide detector?

https://www.azfamily.com/news/family-of-found-dead-in-cabin-from-possible-carbon-monoxide/article_eba36f01-89ff-5723-9251-a3e44c1b744a.html

To be clear here, I don't hold the county responsible for this and I doubt the family does either.  But I do suspect the motives of the county in moving these charges forward.  It was pretty dang clear that GCSO was enjoying their day in the sun while the search went on. It was also they held strong animosity for the family and volunteers who showed up to help they refused to even coordinate with the civilian effort which had far more man power and significant resources. And, ironically enough, it was the volunteers who found all 3 bodies. This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

[bojangles]

What if your kid gets the flu and you didn’t get your kids the flu shot?

should parents be charged?

what if said child died from flu?

if you child dies from a side effect of a vaccination, the dr has immunity and walks.

[elkaholic]

Building an actual bridge is kinda stupid.

 

Channeling that section of the river and building a  giant pipe culvert would be the cheapest , fastest way !

 

Lay gaint metal sections of pipe and build a road over them. Just like they do in driveways. 

Ever been to the north end of lake pleasants  culvert bridge. Same thing but on a bigger scale.  Nothing new here in the desert!

[Ohthatguy]

1 hour ago, Flatlander said:

So then should the adults who lead a family to Water Wheel for a swim be charged similarly (this was also in Gila County)? There are signs warning about flash floods:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2017/07/16/payson-flash-flood-results-four-deaths/482805001/

How about the family who let another family stay in their cabin that didn't have a carbon monoxide detector?

https://www.azfamily.com/news/family-of-found-dead-in-cabin-from-possible-carbon-monoxide/article_eba36f01-89ff-5723-9251-a3e44c1b744a.html

To be clear here, I don't hold the county responsible for this and I doubt the family does either.  But I do suspect the motives of the county in moving these charges forward.  It was pretty dang clear that GCSO was enjoying their day in the sun while the search went on. It was also they held strong animosity for the family and volunteers who showed up to help they refused to even coordinate with the civilian effort which had far more man power and significant resources. And, ironically enough, it was the volunteers who found all 3 bodies. This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

C'mon Flatlander, are you seriously trying to compare the deaths of people that were killed by forces that were not immediately obvious to a death caused by someone actually driving into a raging river? Sign or not.

These are not even close to being the same type of scenarios.

[Big Browns]

I honestly don't know how to feel about the charges.  The Law enforcement side of me says "Manslaughter" feels harsh, but is appropriate.  The father and community side of me says his family has already been punished, lets not make it worse.  If the decision to charge or not to charge was up to me I would have a very difficult time deciding.  I would probably loose a lot of sleep over that decision.  Either way it's a tragedy and yes, it could have been prevented.  

[stanley]

1 hour ago, Flatlander said:

So then should the adults who lead a family to Water Wheel for a swim be charged similarly (this was also in Gila County)? There are signs warning about flash floods:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2017/07/16/payson-flash-flood-results-four-deaths/482805001/

How about the family who let another family stay in their cabin that didn't have a carbon monoxide detector?

https://www.azfamily.com/news/family-of-found-dead-in-cabin-from-possible-carbon-monoxide/article_eba36f01-89ff-5723-9251-a3e44c1b744a.html

To be clear here, I don't hold the county responsible for this and I doubt the family does either.  But I do suspect the motives of the county in moving these charges forward.  It was pretty dang clear that GCSO was enjoying their day in the sun while the search went on. It was also they held strong animosity for the family and volunteers who showed up to help they refused to even coordinate with the civilian effort which had far more man power and significant resources. And, ironically enough, it was the volunteers who found all 3 bodies. This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

Well I suppose I would say that each of the situations you pointed out above should be looked at individually for evidence of negligence and/or malice.  If there is an indication of negligence in the eyes of the law when looking at each of those situations, then yes, I guess charges might be warranted.

No doubt the whole thing stinks to high heaven.

[jdown]

2 hours ago, thegunsmith2506 said:

You missed the point. Intent has everything to do with it. If your intent is to do harm, then you should be held accountable. Sometimes you don't intend for something to go bad and it does and sometimes you have to pay for those actions. All I am saying is he already paid for his mistake 3 times over. I don't want my tax dollars spent to punish him more. 

I guess if a person who drinks too much runs into and kills a family in the process (and let's just say his family as well) then he shouldn't be prosecuted? What if it was your family he killed? He didn't mean to, but ignored all the warnings not to drink and drive.  and oh yeah, he only lives a few miles from the bar and has done it 1000 times before....  all good now?   

[Saguaro]

2 minutes ago, jdown said:

I guess if a person who drinks too much runs into and kills a family in the process (and let's just say his family as well) then he shouldn't be prosecuted? What if it was your family he killed? He didn't mean to, but ignored all the warnings not to drink and drive.  and oh yeah, he only lives a few miles from the bar and has done it 1000 times before....  all good now?   

That’s the negligence Stanley was talking about.  Then there’s degrees of negligence.  You mentioned two or three in your scenario.  1. Drinking 2. History of drinking.  The third could be driving but I’ll consider you meant drinking and driving as one.  Drinking and driving has been socially unacceptable for a while now and I don’t think you’ll get many people that think someone who’s killed while doing that needs to escape justice.

[jdown]

1) Crossed it many times so has an idea when conditions are bad or worse  2) Signs up warning not to cross. I'm going to put ignoring a sign to not cross, then crossing a flooded road with a family that results in killing 3 kids as negligent.  I would say causing the death of your family while doing these things are socially unacceptable too.  Just my opinion. You can't pick and choose when to enforce and the punishments weigh the intent. I'm not saying he should do life in prison, but I do agree the state/county has a job to do. 

[Saguaro]

Fair enough.  What do you think is a fair sentence?  

 

[jdown]

I'm very happy to not be in a position to have to make that decision. 

What are parents getting for leaving their kids in cars resulting in deaths?  That Gilbert dad last summer and the 3 year old, I know he was arrested and is facing neglect charges I believe.  

Horrible situation with no winners and no sentence is going to fair to him, his family or the deceased, but neither would be no sentence at all... 

[Non-Typical Solutions]

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/wealthy-16-year-old-killed-4-drunken-crash-spared-jail-article-1.1544508

Texas rich kid who killed 4 in drunken car crash spared jail

lawyers argued his wealthy parents never taught him right from wrong.

 

Now known as Affluenza........to rich to know better spoiled rotten!!!

 

af·flu·en·za

/ˌaflo͞oˈenzə/

Learn to pronounce

 

noun

 

1. a psychological malaise supposedly affecting wealthy young people, symptoms of which include a lack of motivation, feelings of guilt, and a sense of isolation.