L Cazador Report post Posted December 6, 2019 54 minutes ago, MMACFIVE said: I agree it’s a sizing issue. Lance is most likely right about a shoulder bump. I have had more then one gun where the resizing die tolerances were not tight enough to reduced the base diameter enough and I’ve have to purchase a “small base die” to get the job done. L Cazador, what did you mean by Expanded head diameter and why does belted magnum matter? Belted magnums headspace on the belt. When you neck size only or you don't push the shoulder back (shoulder bump) you wind up with partial headspace on the shoulder. This is great until the unsupported cartridge head expands. The "head" is the part of the cartridge case that holds the primer and includes the belt and rim. Shoulder bump is not the complete remedy as the diameter of the head and the diameter of brass at the shoulder junction is not completely restored. That's why you have that bright area right there before the shoulder. There are dies that will size the head but frankly it's not going to completely recover original dimensions due to brass springback. That's why I say buy new brass. Belted cartridges are nothing but a pain! That's why I stopped shooting them over 30 years ago. All of my magnums are unbelted!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MMACFIVE Report post Posted December 6, 2019 50 minutes ago, L Cazador said: Belted magnums headspace on the belt. When you neck size only or you don't push the shoulder back (shoulder bump) you wind up with partial headspace on the shoulder. This is great until the unsupported cartridge head expands. The "head" is the part of the cartridge case that holds the primer and includes the belt and rim. Shoulder bump is not the complete remedy as the diameter of the head and the diameter of brass at the shoulder junction is not completely restored. That's why you have that bright area right there before the shoulder. There are dies that will size the head but frankly it's not going to completely recover original dimensions due to brass springback. That's why I say buy new brass. Belted cartridges are nothing but a pain! That's why I stopped shooting them over 30 years ago. All of my magnums are unbelted!! Belted magnums do not have to head space on the belt. I do not neck size any hunting load. It’s been my experience that when I partially size(i.e. shoulder bump/ i.e. head spacing on the shoulder) that I am also partially resizing the base also regardless of whether it’s belted or not. This has worked for me for many decades and I don’t see a reason to switch now. I agree that a belt is not needed but whether a cartridge has a belt or not does not affect my decision. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MMACFIVE Report post Posted December 7, 2019 By coincidence this is from Layne Simpson in Feb 2020 Shooting Times: “There are those among us who break into hives in the presence of a belted case, and while it is not actually needed on most cartridges, I have yet to experience a problem with it. Set the full-length resizing die for head spacing on the shoulder of the case rather than on its belt, and cases last as long as those with no belt.” 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10Turkeys Report post Posted December 7, 2019 3 hours ago, MMACFIVE said: By coincidence this is from Layne Simpson in Feb 2020 Shooting Times: It has been said that Those that can shoot do, those that can't write about it. I take what most gun writers write about with a grain of salt. Any how here is a case that wouldn't fit in the top of a Willis die, indicating expansion forward of the belt. The other pic is of the bolt not wanting to close. Notice the distance between the bolt and the back of the receiver. I would think if it was case needing the shoulder set back that the bolt would be a little closer to the back of the reciever, but this is my gun and not the OP's, so the only way to see what the problem with his case is to have it checked out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MMACFIVE Report post Posted December 8, 2019 Are you saying after firing this round it would not rechamber in the same gun? Or were there other steps in between? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
L Cazador Report post Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) Wow what a difference in headspace! And Layne Simpson designed the Shooting Times Westerner! I think even he thinks belted cartridges are a pain 🙄! Lots of experts out there!! This proves that poor reloading techniques cause problems! Edited December 8, 2019 by L Cazador Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MMACFIVE Report post Posted December 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, L Cazador said: Wow what a difference in headspace! And Layne Simpson designed the Shooting Times Westerner! I think even he thinks belted cartridges are a pain 🙄! Lots of experts out there!! This proves that poor reloading techniques cause problems! I don't think that is a head space issue? did you read my quote for Layne? He doesn't seem to think they are a pain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10Turkeys Report post Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, MMACFIVE said: Are you saying after firing this round it would not rechamber in the same gun? Or were there other steps in between? To tell you the truth I don't know if it would fit in the same gun, because that is an old piece of brass and I couldn't tell you which gun it was fired in last. I do know that there is expansion forward of the belt or it would go down to the belt on the top of the die, and I do know that it won't fit in the chamber of the pictured rifle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
