Shooting from one unit into another????

[PRDATR]

32 minutes ago, Zeke-BE said:

Good Point!!  But come on, only the SR-71 Blackbird can achieve mach 3

And then some.

[10Turkeys]

36 minutes ago, Zeke-BE said:

Good Point!!  But come on, only the SR-71 Blackbird can achieve mach 3

I've had a couple of people that have passed me and they were giving it their best shot though.

[ThomC]

We agree that shooting from another unit is risky, as is driving too fast.  I see people driving too fast with their kids in the vehicle, risking their lives.  Would you advise your kids to shoot from the wrong unit or drive too fast?  😶

[Zeke-BE]

6 minutes ago, ThomC said:

We agree that shooting from another unit is risky, as is driving too fast.  I see people driving too fast with their kids in the vehicle, risking their lives.  Would you advise your kids to shoot from the wrong unit or drive too fast?  😶

If we can get official statement from G&F that it is legal then there is no risk 

[trophyseeker]

On 11/15/2019 at 9:18 AM, Ohthatguy said:

So is sitting in Unit 10 on the Bo, watching a herd of elk on the Res that you know will hop the fence into the unit considered hunting on the Res? 

To add to the mix, if you are glassing them on the Res, waiting for hours and relocating based on their movements, is that considered "chase"?

I saw where OW said he was done with this thread so I'll take a stab. 

First off, the hypothetical is completely opposite of the original topic of this thread. To be the same, the hunter would have a permit for Unit 10 but would be hunting/glassing/pursuing from within the res boundaries with the intent to shoot the elk in unit 10. So in this case, regardless of where he actually PLANS to kill his elk, that hunter would be reading a citation for hunting on the reservation given to him by a tribal game warden. 

As for how the actual hypothetical is laid out, the unit 10 on the permit has boundaries that outline where the permit holder must be PHYSICALLY present for the legal taking of a game animal in that unit. In that regard "sitting in Unit 10 on the Bo, watching a herd of elk on the Res" is quite legal and comes under the definition of "take" as in hunting, pursuing. Once the elk jump the fence into Unit 10, and the permit holder "shoots" and "Kills" that elk, he has completed all the necessary elements of legally taking that elk. No laws or rules broken. 

[trophyseeker]

On 11/15/2019 at 7:43 PM, AZLance said:

Gonna need another bottle of oxygen for this...

Curious...were you born a dickhead or are you just practicing so you can be a good one when you grow up? 

Oh, and I noticed you never commented on my comment below. That leads me to believe you have been, eh?

"Sounds as if you have some experience on the other side of the fence." (Trophyseeker)

[Big Browns]

I don't see this specific issue being directly addressed in the regs, therefore I personally don't have a moral issue shooting an animal from 22 into 23, etc.  Some will agree and disagree, either way until I see this specific issue reflected in the regs I have no moral delema!

Don't bring up unit boundaries as evidence.  Unit boundaries are the boundaries in wich an animal can be harvested, I.E. dies!  If I shoot the animal in 23 from 22 and the animal dies in 23, I consider myself fulfilling the boundary obligations!

 

[NewlyMinted]

Aren't all numbered units bounded by major roads, dirt roads, or rivers and tracks? I know shooting across or from the first two is a violation, but if the possibility that it's an unimproved road or hiking trail along the river is high don't you run the risk of shooting over somebody's (hiker, fisherman, mountain bike rider, horses, etc.) head? That seems like quite the risk for both the people involved and the publicity from it.

I was looking at the GMUs in my neck of the woods and, with the exception of the reservation lands, boundaries they are all bounded by roads or the San Pedro. Are most other units free from those kind of boundaries up north where ridges are close to boundaries? I'm trying to see where the OP might be shooting from/to to understand it better.

Also, glassing from anywhere to anywhere is just glassing. If you have a license for anything in the open season a bow, muzzleloader, shotgun, and rifle are al legal equipment for most animals or shed hunting, there can't be a restriction of glassing across a road/ boundary, but shooting just seems super risky for more reasons than just getting caught by (or self reporting to) the AZGFD.

 

 

[Ohthatguy]

16 minutes ago, NewlyMinted said:

Aren't all numbered units bounded by major roads, dirt roads, or rivers and tracks? I know shooting across or from the first two is a violation, but if the possibility that it's an unimproved road or hiking trail along the river is high don't you run the risk of shooting over somebody's (hiker, fisherman, mountain bike rider, horses, etc.) head? That seems like quite the risk for both the people involved and the publicity from it.

I was looking at the GMUs in my neck of the woods and, with the exception of the reservation lands, boundaries they are all bounded by roads or the San Pedro. Are most other units free from those kind of boundaries up north where ridges are close to boundaries? I'm trying to see where the OP might be shooting from/to to understand it better.

Also, glassing from anywhere to anywhere is just glassing. If you have a license for anything in the open season a bow, muzzleloader, shotgun, and rifle are al legal equipment for most animals or shed hunting, there can't be a restriction of glassing across a road/ boundary, but shooting just seems super risky for more reasons than just getting caught by (or self reporting to) the AZGFD.

 

 

Several units use rivers as boundaries and LOTS of hunters regularly shoot 500-1000 yards across these same canyons. Personally I'd rather have people shooting at the side of a canyon than a deer on the flats in 44. If you miss the canyon shot, your going to hit right next to him. If you miss in 44, your bullet may have a long way to go before coming down. And if you are on the buck, someone else may be stalking it too. 

[Ohthatguy]

1 hour ago, trophyseeker said:

I saw where OW said he was done with this thread so I'll take a stab. 

First off, the hypothetical is completely opposite of the original topic of this thread. To be the same, the hunter would have a permit for Unit 10 but would be hunting/glassing/pursuing from within the res boundaries with the intent to shoot the elk in unit 10. So in this case, regardless of where he actually PLANS to kill his elk, that hunter would be reading a citation for hunting on the reservation given to him by a tribal game warden. 

As for how the actually hypothetical is laid out, the unit 10 on the permit has boundaries that outline where the permit holder  must be PHYSICALLY be present for the legal taking of a game animal in that unit. In that regard "sitting in Unit 10 on the Bo, watching a herd of elk on the Res" is quite legal and comes under the definition of "take" as in hunting, pursuing. Once the elk jump the fence into Unit 10, and the permit holder "shoots" and "Kills" that elk, he has completed all the necessary elements of legally taking that elk. No laws or rules broken. 

I agree that my scenario is apples/oranges re the OP so my apologies for going off on a tangent.

My point was that according to GnF, "TAKE" includes pursuing as well as shooting, hunting and killing. So if you are skirting the elk on the Res, isn't that by definition pursuing and also a violation?

Three are several sections that one could use to make the argument for either side but I only wanted to kick this horse, not try and resuscitate it.

FWIW, I don't see a problem with shooting from 1 unit into the other.

I find it interesting that there is no definition of hunting in the GnF regs or the A.R.S..  It is however used in the definition of "Take"..

ARS  17-303. Taking or driving wildlife from closed areas

It is unlawful for any person, except by commission order, to enter upon a game refuge or other area closed to hunting, trapping or fishing and take, drive or attempt to drive wildlife from such areas.

(Doesn't say you can't shoot from a closed area into another one)

 

 

[ThomC]

It doesnt say that you can or cannot expose yourself in the woods either.  This whole thread is just like the Lefties investigation of what the President said or did not say.  😒

[trphyhntr]

why is this thread still going

[Ohthatguy]

25 minutes ago, ThomC said:

It doesnt say that you can or cannot expose yourself in the woods either.  This whole thread is just like the Lefties investigation of what the President said or did not say.  😒

And yet here you are....

[ThomC]

Yes here I are, trying to teacha pig to sing.  😕😵

[trophyseeker]

On 11/17/2019 at 12:54 PM, Ohthatguy said:

I agree that my scenario is apples/oranges re the OP so my apologies for going off on a tangent.

My point was that according to GnF, "TAKE" includes pursuing as well as shooting, hunting and killing. So if you are skirting the elk on the Res, isn't that by definition pursuing and also a violation?

Three are several sections that one could use to make the argument for either side but I only wanted to kick this horse, not try and resuscitate it.

FWIW, I don't see a problem with shooting from 1 unit into the other.

I find it interesting that there is no definition of hunting in the GnF regs or the A.R.S..  It is however used in the definition of "Take"..

ARS  17-303. Taking or driving wildlife from closed areas

It is unlawful for any person, except by commission order, to enter upon a game refuge or other area closed to hunting, trapping or fishing and take, drive or attempt to drive wildlife from such areas.

(Doesn't say you can't shoot from a closed area into another one)

 

 

I have nothing more to add to this topic. My only suggestion is to reread what the member that got cited for it wrote in this thread and what a judge who would hear such a case stated.