Shooting from one unit into another????

[grey curse]

Well that escalated quickly.  Wow

[Couzer]

So if I’m coyote hunting in 22 and see a buck in 23 in which I have a tag for I can not shoot the buck until I’m physically in 23? I’m actively hunting in 22 for other critters? Just asking

 

Edit: and yes I do actively coyote hunt during deer season, I’m that guy everyone probably hates. 

[Delw]

3 hours ago, PowellSixO said:

Last thing I have to say, is that I never intended to stir the pot, or get anyone fired up. I really just wanted to know what was truly legal. I found my answer, and I hope it helps someone in the future. Sorry if some feathers got ruffled along the way. 👍

Dont worry about it man, I wouldnt be sorry.

the Ethic/Moral police and Harvesters always get triggered  somehow.

[Coach]

Honestly, I think this was a really great topic to bring up, and glad the original poster did. Tony did a great job digging into the regs. There's undoubtedly some ambiguity when it comes to the definition of "pursuit"  or "pursue" and interpretations can vary. 

At the end of the day, this is one of those situations where you can roll the dice and see what happens. The smarter bet is to play it safe and avoid the gray areas, IMO. You never know what's going to happen in court. 

Be safe out there, have fun and take a kid hunting. 

[n2horns]

Need to get Hilary and Bill in here to qualify what the meaning of  is is, because with out their definition there was no is here or there, or maybe just on the blue dress.

[Outdoor Writer]

20 hours ago, PowellSixO said:

So from your point of view, it is okay to shoot animal in the wrong unit as long as you're "pursuing" from the same unit as your tag, and "taking" from the same unit as your tag. 

 

21 hours ago, Outdoor Writer said:

Have no idea what the heck you're talking about. Do you?  

In the meantime, read this again and take note of ALL the bold words. 

20. "Take" means pursuing, shooting, hunting, fishing, trapping, killing, capturing, snaring or netting wildlife or placing or using any net or other device or trap in a manner that may result in capturing or killing wildlife.

My reply immediately above was in reference to the sentence in the quoted part from you above that. NOWHERE is any message did I ever state what you outlined in it as in "...it is okay to shoot animal in the wrong unit …" My interpretation throughout this thread has been consistent -- all hunting, pursuing, glassing, shooting, killing must be done within the boundaries of the unit on the hunter's permit for the LEGAL TAKING of a game animal.

 

20 hours ago, PowellSixO said:

What I'm not seeing is the FROM part. You can justify it from either perspective. I can understand it from both sides. What I WANT, is a cut and dry answer here. That's the thing I hate about keyboard warriors. They refuse to try and see a scenario from both sides of the fence. I can see it from your perspective, but you refuse to try and see it from mine. Doesn't make either of us right. I had an hour conversation with an Arizona Game Commissioner, and he didn't know the answer. He didn't criticize me, or say you're wrong because this is the way I feel. He said I see it from my side, and I can see it from your side, let me find out. So why is your opinion on the way you interpret the rules here make it the end all? That's my criticism of your argument. 

 

Edit: I'm not trying to be an butt here. I'm not saying I'm right either. And I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that it is not as cut and dry as you're claiming it is. It definitely leaves room for argument. I'm just wanting a real answer here, not an opinion. 

  I "see" the scenario from both sides of the fence. I just don't agree with the conclusion of one of them. Obviously, my interpretation is different than that of the commissioner you spoke to, and it will remain so because I believe it's illegal and will result in a probable citation and a trip to court. Now, if you would like yet another opinion, I can call my friend who was the judge handling AGFD cases for the Northwest Phoenix Justice Court for many years until his retirement in 2000 and ask him for his interpretation of the laws/rules as written in the regs.  

[Outdoor Writer]

9 hours ago, Coach said:

 There's undoubtedly some ambiguity when it comes to the definition of "pursuit"  or "pursue" and interpretations can vary. 

All of the bold words are in the definition. not much ambiguity associated with shooting. 

20. "Take" means pursuing, shooting, hunting, fishing, trapping, killing, capturing, snaring or netting wildlife or placing or using any net or other device or trap in a manner that may result in capturing or killing wildlife.

[AZAV8ER]

Too much of a gray area. Really you are only at risk if a game warden sees you do it. If someone reported you all you have to do is document your kill location/gut pile is in your hunt unit, then your word against theirs. Just remember to police your brass. For me though just easier to be inside your unit 100% legal then. 

[Outdoor Writer]

21 hours ago, BOHNTR said:

Your question would be better served with a district attorney, game warden, and/or magistrate instead of the G&F Game Commission, as they do not hear criminal matters.
 

The warden I just asked for you said, “most definitely a violation.”  You should verify for yourself, but it’s fairly cut and dry, IMO.  

I called Judge John Barclay for his legal opinion since he dealt with G&F cases for 20+ years.. I started to lay out the hypothetical and didn't even get past the part about glassing from the wrong unit into the right one, before he interrupted me with, "Technically, he is hunting in the wrong unit. He would be cited if a game warden shows up, and I would find him guilty."

I eventually finished the whole thing with the shooting. One point he raised was possibly having to explain to the warden that the hunter hadn't shot the deer in the wrong unit, and it ran into the right unit, where it died.   

I told him the commissioner said it's legal. He said, "Good. He can pay the guy's fine."

Now, I'm done beating this dead horse. 😉

[trphyhntr]

I talked to fbi directorJames Comey and he told me if there is no intent to break the law no charges will be filed. 

[AZLance]

Let's see what Adam 'Shifty' Schiff thinks

[trphyhntr]

43 minutes ago, AZLance said:

Let's see what Adam 'Shifty' Schiff thinks

he said "ample evidence of unit to unit collusion in plain sight." 

[muledeerarea33?]

If you like your unit, you can keep your unit. 

[bigbuckfever]

Whether you get a ticket and or fine imposed is determined by the G&F officer and the judge you encounter.  If the winds in your face, you're fine.  If the wind's at your back, you're screwed.  I mistakenly shot a 3point muley instead of a whitetail I had a tag for. I called G&F and self reported the error. They said the warden for that unit was out of town and another officer from a different unit was filling in for him and he would find me.  I was crushed and humiliated but I did what I thought at the time was the right thing. I was in a very remote area and tried as best as I could to relate to them how to find me.  I skinned and gutted the deer and took care of the meat as to keep it salvageable.  I waited 24 hours for him , but no one showed up so I headed back towards town.  On the way I spotted a game and fish truck at the old rockhouse gas station off of 288 just north of the Salt River.  I approached him and started to explain my situation and he interrupted me part way through it to angerly demand to know where the heck I had been.  He said he spent hours looking for me and couldn't find me.  He was really in a foul mood and made sure I knew how pissed he was.  He asked why I had skinned and gutted it if I wasn't planning on keeping it (like a poacher).  I explained that I had already made one mistake by shooting the wrong deer, I wasn't going to make another by letting the meat go bad.  He clearly didn't like my answer and wrote me a ticket on the spot.  

When I went to court, the judge apparently was on the same page as the warden after reading his version of what happened, and he fined me.  Left a pretty sour taste in my mouth.  I honestly don't know if I'd make that call if it ever happened again.

[TOBY]

Nice guys finish last.