Got tickted by azgf

[520HUNT]

I'm just blown away by 3 things...

1.) You saw a game warden

2.) He got out of his truck

3.) He had a range finder

Are you sure this was AZ G&F?

[azhunter42]

16 minutes ago, 520HUNT said:

I'm just blown away by 3 things...

1.) You saw a game warden

2.) He got out of his truck

3.) He had a range finder

Are you sure this was AZ G&F?

Yes all three 

[bojangles]

On 10/5/2019 at 10:48 AM, yotebuster said:

Occupied means being used, it may not mean that someone was actually there.  Would you want someone hunting 240 yards from your house if you weren’t home?  

They do back east all the time.  No big deal, IMO.

 

let me clarify, there are often weapon specifications in urban environments.  Archery, slugs, handguns, etc.

it should be this way here.

[BOHNTR]

On 10/5/2019 at 3:32 PM, Big Tub said:

Doesn’t matter if the barn was occupied (vacant) or not.....it’s still a violation according to the statute and case law.     ... book chapter and verse -- that is not what it says -- "occupied"

 

You don’t understand the legal definition of ‘occupied’ for this statute.  It’s not your Webster’s definition but the LEGAL definition.  I spent 30 years enforcing statutes.....ask any attorney, they will tell you the same.  

 

[Outdoor Writer]

9 hours ago, BOHNTR said:

You don’t understand the legal definition of ‘occupied’ for this statute.  It’s not your Webster’s definition but the LEGAL definition.  I spent 30 years enforcing statutes.....ask any attorney, they will tell you the same.  

 

Maybe this will help those who need it. Here are several LEGAL definitions from various law sites.

**********

What is OCCUPY?
To hold In possession; to hold or keep for use.

**********
What is the legal definition of an occupied structure seen through the eyes of a law enforcement officer?

2. "Occupied structure" means any structure as defined in paragraph 4 in which one or more human beings either is or is likely to be present or so near as to be in equivalent danger at the time the fire or explosion occurs. The term includes any dwelling house, whether occupied, unoccupied or vacant.

4. "Structure" means any building, object, vehicle, watercraft, aircraft or place with sides and a floor, used for lodging, business, transportation, recreation or storage.

**********
Legal Definition of occupy. 
1 : the fact or condition of holding, possessing, or residing in or on something (occupied premises). 2 : the act or fact of taking or having possession (as of abandoned property) to acquire ownership. 

[Explorer]

Check the info on the ticket thoroughly. Anything filled out wrong on a ticket will result in it being dismissed. 

[Big Tub]

1 hour ago, Explorer said:

Check the info on the ticket thoroughly. Anything filled out wrong on a ticket will result in it being dismissed. 

I tried that on the only ticket for speeding  (5-10 mi/hr over) as an adult and lost but then again it was $15 but it ruined by perfect record.  The law system is a closed shop which could help explain why occupy is not defined in Title 17 and has an entirely different meaning that Webster's.  I detest lawyers.

 

[1uglydude]

You need to fight it for two reasons:

First, as has already been said, this is a Class 2-level offense and they need to fix that.

Second, the language about "should assume to be occupied" is commentary and advice from the Department in the regulations.  It is not found anywhere in the statute.  The element of occupation (whether it is a legal, factual, or a combined legal/factual question...which is the source of the debate above) is still an element that the Department needs to prove.  It is not your burden to disprove it unless they come to court with the evidence they need to support their case.  

[BOHNTR]

On 10/5/2019 at 4:31 PM, azbirdhunter88 said:

Yes this is what I’m talking about. 

I agree.....however, that is (should) be a different violation the man the 440 yard rule.  Perhaps 17-312 would be applicable for someone shooting a firearm towards a dwelling even if they’re 440 yards away.  

[JLW]

officer is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor if he fails to enforce a rule of the commission. dumb rule that is not enforced, right fellas?

its only a littering type ticket until its not

on the porter mountain elk "poaching" 2007 hunter was cited for 2 counts of shooting too close to a residence... 1 count for each shot. 

obviously more egregious.....

needs to be more discretion of an officer... a nice lecture for 2 or 3 hours would have done it.

an officer did that for my brother inlaw once... having lead shot on a duck hunt cause they were also quail hunting to and from the duck spot. 

james

 

 

 

 

[StickFlicker]

On 10/7/2019 at 11:47 AM, JLW said:

its only a littering type ticket until its not

A couple of years ago AZ G&F took away a guys hunting license for five years because he left one item of litter in his camp after leaving (while on a hunting trip).  I've seen them revoke licenses several times for very minor infractions.  Not trying to get you overly worried, but once your civil case is over, you could still be at the mercy of the G&F commission for anything they want to do to you, including more fines, requiring you to take or retake the firearms safety class and potential license revocation for up to five years.  You may not need a lawyer for the infraction in civil court, but if it then gets called before the Commission I would consider an attorney.

[trphyhntr]

On 10/5/2019 at 12:54 PM, pete said:

I had the game and fish get out a 4" book and hey read that occupied means owned. my 2 cents

youd think they would change the verbage in the regs if thats the case from occupied to owned 

[654321]

2 hours ago, StickFlicker said:

A couple of years ago AZ G&F took away a guys hunting license for five years because he left one item of litter in his camp after leaving (while on a hunting trip).  I've seen them revoke licenses several times for very minor infractions.  Not trying to get you overly worried, but once your civil case is over, you could still be at the mercy of the G&F commission for anything they want to do to you, including more fines, requiring you to take or retake the firearms safety class and potential license revocation for up to five years.  You may not need a lawyer for the infraction in civil court, but if it then gets called before the Commission I would consider an attorney.

License Revocation (A.R.S. 17-340) Page 110 You can have your license privileges revoked by the Commission for up to five years for a conviction of: • unlawful taking, selling, offering for sale, bartering or possession of wildlife • careless use of firearms resulting in human injury or death • destroying or injuring livestock or crops while hunting or fishing • acts of vandalism or littering while hunting or fishing • knowingly allowing another person to use your big game tag • unlawful entry on to closed area for purposes of taking wildlife • unlawful posting of state or federal lands • license fraud • unlawful use of aircraft to take wildlife • waste of game meat • guiding without a license Additional convictions may result in license privileges being revoked for longer periods up to permanently.  

I don't believe shooting within 440 yards of occupied building is a revocable offense, and they can only revoke your license if your convicted.  If your not convicted they cant revoke your license.  They can however hit you with a civil penalty without a conviction 

[StickFlicker]

Good info 654321.

[AZ8]

Man. I’m glad I hunt dove out in the desert! Not a house or barn for miles!