Thoughts on use of point guard

[grey curse]

Just want to get a feel of how cw members are viewing point guard lately.   I feel that it started with a theory to help out hunters in bad times but has changed to help hunters get draw or trophy desires.     I know of people putting in for hunts with applicants that have a lot of bonus points, then when drawn the applicant with all the points returns the tag never intending on using what they put in for.   All just so their buddy / spouse can get drawn.  Or hunters are just returning tags because they can’t find the “trophy “ they want, ie dry year no horn growth.  I thought the intent of point guard was to be able to return tags and keep points if a hunter got hurt , feel on hard times ex...    maybe I miss understood the purpose of point guard.  By continuing this thought process and actions it will make getting drawn harder for everyone, except the people mentioned above.  At this point I hope game and fish puts some requirements behind using it.   

I’m sure me wanting more regulations from game and fish will bring some tongue lashings my way. 

[Adicted]

agree.. i know several people have done this already.  Get a group of people drawn but then turn theres in and keep there points...

[Delw]

With all good intentions someone will find a legal way. Its human nature. However I believe G&F knew this from the very beginning thats why they only allow you to use it ONCE per species.

https://www.azgfd.com/hunting/pointguard/

 

Quote

All of us know what it feels like to deal with the frustration and disappointment of an unforeseen event. After all, life happens.

That’s why the Arizona Game and Fish Department is excited to announce an innovative new program in “PointGuard,” which essentially will provide hunters with peace of mind in knowing that they can surrender their hunt permit-tag for any reason without losing their coveted bonus points.

A bonus point is an accumulated credit that authorizes the department to issue an applicant additional computer-generated random numbers during a draw. An applicant accumulates a bonus point each year in which he or she submits a valid application and does not draw a hunt permit-tag. PointGuard ensures that if a successful applicant is unable to participate in a hunt for any reason, the accumulated bonus points that were expended to draw that hunt permit-tag will be reinstated.

Here are the requirements:

• PointGuard is available to applicants who apply online for a hunt permit-tag.
• All applicants must sign up for a free AZGFD Portal account to purchase PointGuard (visit www.azgfd.gov, click on the “Sign in to Account” button in the upper right-hand corner of the home page, then select the “Create an Account” option).
• PointGuard is $5 per species, per applicant, purchased at the time of completing the online application, or prior to the application period deadline. The fee is non-refundable.
• Only one hunt permit-tag may be surrendered, per species. If an applicant is drawn in the future for that particular species, that hunt-permit tag must be used, expending all accumulated bonus points. Only then may an applicant participate again in PointGuard.

The primary applicant (the person who takes the lead in completing the online application for the other applicants) will be prompted to purchase PointGuard at the time of completing the online application. That primary applicant can purchase PointGuard for each additional applicant who has a verified Portal account.

Tag surrender application

Here is the process to surrender a hunt permit-tag:

• A hunt permit-tag must be surrendered prior to the close of business the day before the start of that particular hunt.
• An applicant who has purchased PointGuard will present the original hunt permit-tag to be surrendered, along with a completed tag surrender application form, in person to any customer service representative at any of the department’s statewide office locations, or by mailing the hunt permit-tag and tag surrender application form to AZGFD, Attn: Draw, 5000 W. Carefree Highway, Phoenix, AZ 85086.
• The hunt permit-tag being surrendered and PointGuard purchase will be verified by the department.
• The department will restore all accumulated bonus points for that particular species, including the bonus point the applicant would have accrued if not successful in the draw.
• The hunt permit-tag fee is non-refundable.

A person who donates, or transfers, his or her hunt permit-tag to a qualified nonprofit organization, also can participate in tag surrender, provided the requirements listed above are fulfilled. An acceptable proof of the transfer must be provided to the department (a receipt from the qualified nonprofit organization, for example). The tag surrender application form and an acceptable proof of the hunt permit-tag being donated must be completed within 60 days of the donation, and no less than 30 days before the next application deadline for that particular species.

According to rule (R12-4-118), the department has several options for the reissuance of a  surrendered hunt permit-tag. The proximity to the start of a particular hunt, the type of hunt permit-tag, and demand for that hunt permit-tag will factor into how it will be reissued.

For more information, call (602) 942-3000.

 

[Big Browns]

I applaud G&F for finally putting something in place to assisting hunters.  I know several people years ago who had a lot of points and accidentally put in for cow hunts.  Back then the department couldn't and wouldn't do anything for those people.  Now we have point guard to assist.  Yes, the system isn't perfect, but it never will be regardless of how many restrictions we apply.

I always felt the reason behind point guard is to give people a way to protect their points.  To me that includes returning your tag during bad horn growth years, when you get sick or simply can't go on your hunt.  I don't think it was intended to allow people to draw more tags, but since the rule doesn't restrict it, it's going to happen!  As long as it's legal I don't have a problem with people doing it.  I'm personally doing it so I definitely don't have a problem with it! 

I wouldn't have a problem if G&F changed the rules, I just don't see how they can do it without further restricting our hunting privileges.  I want less rules, not more!

[StickFlicker]

It was pretty obvious that was going to happen as they were putting it in place. Same thing happened when they allowed parents, grandparents, etc. to start signing over tags to kids. The number of applicants spiked as tons of people that had no plans to ever hunt started applying. Every plan they institute makes it harder for the average guy to draw a tag but raises more money for G&F through application fees, license sales, and reselling tags that have been turned-in. Why would they want to stop it?

[10Turkeys]

My thoughts are the person who has the tag, thus supposedly paid for it, has a right to do with the tag what he/she wants. 

[muledeerarea33?]

why are you concerned with how other people live their life?

[1uglydude]

1 hour ago, grey curse said:

Just want to get a feel of how cw members are viewing point guard lately.   I feel that it started with a theory to help out hunters in bad times but has changed to help hunters get draw or trophy desires.     I know of people putting in for hunts with applicants that have a lot of bonus points, then when drawn the applicant with all the points returns the tag never intending on using what they put in for.   All just so their buddy / spouse can get drawn.  Or hunters are just returning tags because they can’t find the “trophy “ they want, ie dry year no horn growth.  I thought the intent of point guard was to be able to return tags and keep points if a hunter got hurt , feel on hard times ex...    maybe I miss understood the purpose of point guard.  By continuing this thought process and actions it will make getting drawn harder for everyone, except the people mentioned above.  At this point I hope game and fish puts some requirements behind using it.   

I’m sure me wanting more regulations from game and fish will bring some tongue lashings my way. 

There was discussion of this when they established it...and that's why you are allowed to pointguard a tag back once and still get your points back.   So, there are already rules in place to keep it from being abused.

[rossislider]

Want some cheese with that "whine"? 😂

But seriously, if it is legal and works for you, do it. Remember, people can't point guard tags back indefinitely, or it would be problematic. They can only point guard it back one time. 

If someone wants to hunt bad enough, there are plenty of guaranteed or near guaranteed draw hunts. Until that changes, I am not very sympathetic to the guy that has to sit at home because he is only applying for premium tags and then complains about it.

Educate yourself on how the system works and you will start getting plenty of tags. Most won't take the time to do that, which works out great for those of us that do.

[bonecollector]

I have no problem with it. The person building the points has to buy a license every year, app fees, and PG fees. Its a revenue maker.

[AZ8]

People are misunderstanding the term...."only use once".  Not technically true. Read the last sentence Delw highlighted in his response. In this case, once you draw for that species, you can start again buying point guard for the same species. The key is after you've drawn. So it's possible to keep using it for the same species.

Me, I don't have a problem wth it.  It's up to everyone's personal risk vs reward. I prefer to be conservative and keep it just in case I really need it,  i.e, break my arm 9 days before the season. 

[oz31p]

I say use it any way that’s legal. 

I used point guard last year for deer. I drew a late 35b coues but I kill a big mule deer in aug. 

[1uglydude]

24 minutes ago, AZ8 said:

People are misunderstanding the term...."only use once".  Not technically true. Read the last sentence Delw highlighted in his response. In this case, once you draw for that species, you can start again buying point guard for the same species. The key is after you've drawn. So it's possible to keep using it for the same species.

Me, I don't have a problem wth it.  It's up to everyone's personal risk vs reward. I prefer to be conservative and keep it just in case I really need it,  i.e, break my arm 9 days before the season. 

After you have used it once, the next time you draw you are going to have to forfeit your points...period.  Yes, you could start building points again after that and do it again, but if the concern is that guys are using PG to draw difficult tags, you're talking 10, 15, or 20 years down to the road to be able to build up enough points to bust far enough into the bonus pass to be able to lift up another applicant who hasn't applied long enough to be there on his own.

[Outdoor Writer]

1 hour ago, AZ8 said:

mPeople are misunderstanding the term...."only use once".  Not technically true. 

He was referring to turning in the permit while still retaining points. And that is correct. Then once he turns in that permit, he gets the points back and can use then to help someone else one more time, which in this case results in the loss of all the points. In both instances, the cost of the permit is not refunded.  From then on, accumulating points begins anew. 

[trphyhntr]

its a scam.