Is this our next president?

[TLH]

I know that after several months of having 4 or 5 robotic mini subs in the ocean gathering data that the scientific community is now more confused than ever--it appears that instead of the ocean gaining in temperature it has actually dropped 2 or 3 degree's--now the scientific community is having some real issues with the "whys" of our earth--the ocean appears to be gaining in temp because the ocean has risen and that is usually made because the ocean is warming not cooling.

 

Science is just that--science--there is really no pr oven theory's as the earth will change daily. I see it like the weather--the weather folks will tell you what they think will happen but in the end the earth will give you what she will give you--not guarantee's and that is the best that can be done. I find it funny that man thinks math is perfect when man made math--man is not perfect, math can not be perfect and science is based on math (mostly)

 

It is evolution at it's finest and that is how we are supposed to go--true, man has made earth warmer by building tons of building, pavement and the 24 hour work day--sure, the earth will warm because of this but when i see that it was 98 degrees in Phoenix in 1938 i wonder if the scientist in those days thought that it was caused by global warming or if they just said--dang, it is warm today?

[DesertBull]

Obama is in favor of instituting a global tax on US citizens that would equal .7% of our entire GDP and all of it would go to the UN to do with as they please.

 

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commer...global-tax.html

[Rembrant]

A couple of relevant Bible verses:

 

God said unto them, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

 

Genesis 1: 28

 

 

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: He catches the wise in their craftiness.

 

1 Corinthians 3: 18

 

 

Cool stuff! Animal rights people obviously don't read the Bible. God has given us dominion over the animals. And if the earth really is being subdued by people; we're doing what God told us to do in the very first chapter of the Bible.

Math is perfect, yet is fully understood only by the One who created it. People are pretty smart (another gift from God), but our wisdom wouldn't amount to a wart on God's litle finger. What's amazing is that He loves us anyway.

Mike

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

A couple of relevant Bible verses:

 

God said unto them, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

 

Genesis 1: 28

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

FYI.... This is Exactly what the Muslims plan to do to us! Although, I think thier book writes a little more about killing us too....

 

 

 

CnS

[Rembrant]

That's why Jesus said,

"They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me.

I have told you this, so that when the time comes you will remember that I warned you.

John 16: 2-4

[mattys281]

A couple of relevant Bible verses:

 

God said unto them, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

 

Genesis 1: 28

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

FYI.... This is Exactly what the Muslims plan to do to us! Although, I think thier book writes a little more about killing us too....

 

 

 

CnS

 

 

I've not read the entire Koran, & can't quote the exact verse (memory slips w/ time), but I recall in my contemporary religions class from college reading in there that Muslims are forbidden from commiting acts of violence against any other followers of "the book" (the old testament, specifically). This includes the Christians w/ their bibles & the Jews w/ their Talmut. I've not read the whole Koran, so I can't say what is or what isn't in there, but I did read this part of it.

 

The people we're having problems with are F-ed up terrorists who come from F-ed up country's where their F-ed up governments manipulate their religions & use BS propaganda to make the us (the United States, not Christians) the bad guys. Think about it, most of these piss-hole countries don't have running water, let alone TV, & 3 hours worth of global news on Direct TV. They only know what they're told.

 

As you may recall from history, Christians have done plenty of killing of their own over time. The Spanish Inquisistion saw thousands of people burned at the stake for be heretics, not to mention the Protestant Reformation & of course two of the three crusades were started by Christians. More recently, the IRA was making news before the Taliban for blowing up everything they could in England, taking their "fight for freedom" to civilian doorsteps.

 

I'm not trying to jab at anyone's personal beliefs, but I honestly believe that the problem here has nothing to do with religions, it has to do with extremism & terrorist nations using a twisted version of their religion to justify their need for violence.

 

As for Obama, last I hear that muslim rumor was started by a BS e-mail (which I also received), but has since been discredited.

 

Check out snopes.com: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

 

Matt S.

[wetmule]

Here is one of if not THE biggest doooofuses on the planet, proof that great intelligence doesn't always accompany great wealth.

 

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2...ing-cannibalism

[ac guy]

Yeah, he's a nutcase. Did you watch the news video? Some funny stuff there.

[DesertBull]

Global temperatures 'to decrease'

 

By Roger Harrabin

BBC News environment analyst

 

 

Global temperatures will drop slightly this year as a result of the cooling effect of the La Nina current in the Pacific, UN meteorologists have said.

 

The World Meteorological Organization's secretary-general, Michel Jarraud, told the BBC it was likely that La Nina would continue into the summer.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7329799.stm

[KGAINES]

The phrase on record is where the problem comes in, coldest on record or warmest on record don't mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. How many ice ages are on record, probably none, there is speculation there was at least one, but no one was there to record it. As stated earlier volcano's and other natural occurrences produce just as much bad crap for the environment as humans do, we don't help too much, but what is our real overall effect. We won't know for another thousand years probably what we directly affected with the evolution of the earth, that is if we are still here. There might be someone at that time calling us Neanderthals, and discounting every thing we have done, or we could be with the Lord without worry on what was.

[SilentButDeadly]

Tyson, did global warming have anything to do with me blowing the horn off of my buck?!

 

Casey,

 

the short answer is Yes.

 

T

[SilentButDeadly]

Keith,

 

I'm in California coaching the UofA men's rugby team this weekend, but I wanted to shoot you some answers to your questions.

 

The sky is not falling. The predicted temperature change that you and I will see in our lives is nothing like what you see on programs like “6 degrees could change the world.”

 

There is enough concern though for a bunch of retired military Generals to write a lengthy report about the problems that climate change could bring upon the US: http://securityandclimate.cna.org/report/

 

Some of the issues involve mass migrations of people from countries that farm in ‘marginal’ climate conditions where a minor or major warming might result in crop failures. Some of the areas they highlight – Mexico, China, and India. The issues in China and India could be huge (based on their population sizes), and today’s border problem with Mexico is nothing compared to millions of starving Latin Americans looking for food from their greedy northern neighbors who are enjoying relatively mild weather (they highlight the benefits of longer growing seasons in the northern states and southern Canada).

 

As far as scientists who prove global warming vs scientists who prove that it isn’t. There is a well funded ‘denial machine’ of pseudo-scientists who try and publish papers that disprove global warming. The problem is that Peer Reviewed Science (probably the best form of error checking we’ve ever invented) doesn’t publish their garbage. If someone were to definitively show how the climate system works they would probably go on to become the wealthiest person on the planet – absolute forecasting of climate could save millions of dollars in losses to agriculture, and save millions of lives. For example, this year scientists from Japan and India successfully pre dicted the onset of the Indian Ocean Dipole – however they withheld their findings because of political pressure – as it turns out thousands of farmers in Australia lost their farms because they planned on a bumper crop this year, instead they experienced one of the worst droughts in modern history. The denial machine is funded mostly by oil corporations, they are exposed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial. Denial is different than Skepticism – skeptics look at the facts and choose the truth that is supported – denialists seek to change the facts to fit their views.

 

As for recording climate (this is something that I work with more directly as a dendrochronologist (tree-ring research - invented at the UofA!)). There are instrumental temperature records as far back as the thermometer in Europe (~250 years), but these records are only localized to Europe. As you get closer to the present day there are more and more recorded observations from around the world. The way that scientists (like me) reconstruct climate is that you can compare proxies (things like tree rings, ice cores, coral rings, sediments cores in lakes, etc) to instrumental records and see how well they match up. Certain species of trees - such as the thousand year old Bristlecone Pines of the Great Basin are sensitive to temperature because of where they grow - up high on cold mountains where it only gets warm for a couple weeks a year. If you compare the average size of a tree's rings for the last 150 years of recorded history to standardized thermometer readings for the same location the rings often are almost exactly the same on an annual basis as the thermometer readings. You can then logically stretch the proxy record back for as long as that tree has been alive.

 

Scientists have collected proxy data from all over the world, using all kinds of different techniques - some better than others, and based on those findings they've come up with 'temperature reconstructions' which say that it has been both hotter and colder than it is today over the last couple thousand years. At the same time there is isotope data (gas bubbles from ice cores) that record the atmospheric content of carbon dioxide over the same period. The ice cores show that CO2 is higher today than at any time in the last several thousand years.

 

An interesting side note - about volcanoes - they do produce CO2 but not nearly as much as humans do. What volcanoes can do is shoot millions of tons of ash into the atmosphere - this ash causes solar radiation to reflect back into space, causing Global Cooling - one example is the Little Ice Age: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

 

In 1815 a massive volcanic eruption in Tambora Indonesia caused the following year, 1816 to be dubbed 'the year without a summer,' when there was frost in New England in June and July.

 

Anywho, I've gotta get to sleep!

 

Tyson

[wetmule]

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st285/st285a.html

 

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st285/st285b.html

 

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st285/st285c.html

 

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st285/st285d.html

[hunter4life]

Funny that you talk about peer reviewed science and then quote wikipedia as your source of information.

 

Peer review might be the best we have for attempting to ensure quality of research, but there is plenty of crap that still gets through this process.

 

The climate on the earth has had drastic changes over the last tens of thousands of years before humans ever started burning fossil fuels for energy. Nobody can ever really prove that the current human caused greenhouse gas emissions are what is causing our current climate change because all we have are theories about what caused the change in the past and the most popular THEORY for the current changes happens to be that they are due to human caused greenhouse gas emissions. Currently we can't even reliably predict the weather a week from now and yet people think that scientists can "prove" global warming. We can prove that humans are releasing CO2 that was trapped in fossil fuels, we have good evidence that Tyson mentioned about CO2 levles in the past and that currently there is a high level of CO2, but all we have are theories about what the longer term effects of this are going to be.

[SilentButDeadly]

Funny that you talk about peer reviewed science and then quote wikipedia as your source of information.

 

Peer review might be the best we have for attempting to ensure quality of research, but there is plenty of crap that still gets through this process.

 

The climate on the earth has had drastic changes over the last tens of thousands of years before humans ever started burning fossil fuels for energy. Nobody can ever really prove that the current human caused greenhouse gas emissions are what is causing our current climate change because all we have are theories about what caused the change in the past and the most popular THEORY for the current changes happens to be that they are due to human caused greenhouse gas emissions. Currently we can't even reliably predict the weather a week from now and yet people think that scientists can "prove" global warming. We can prove that humans are releasing CO2 that was trapped in fossil fuels, we have good evidence that Tyson mentioned about CO2 levles in the past and that currently there is a high level of CO2, but all we have are theories about what the longer term effects of this are going to be.

 

I didn't know I was being held to such high standards, I'll try to cite more direct publications next time, I find Wikipedia more user friendly.

 

As far as climate prediction, it is possible to forecast El Nino/La Nina and its effects, NOAA does so currently: http://www.elnino.noaa.gov/

 

A distinction should be made between Climate and Weather - weather prediction is difficult because of its short term variability. Climate prediction looks at long term averages, for example the blue lines of this graph might be considered weather variability, and the red lines climate.

 

This is one of the reasons why weather headlines, such as this winter's massive snow falls, might be misleading if they claim that Global Warming has been disproven once and for all; you have a large scale weather event, but in the long term when averaged against the hotter than average summers we've had it still lands up being a warmer year on the record. The same can be said for the massive hurricanes that happened over the last two years.

 

Theories are just that theories; but you must consider how much evidence there is to eliminate other possible causes - the only things we can't eliminate are the ones that scientists then come out and claim as being the cause - and right now the only culprit is increased CO2.