Explorer Report post Posted July 17, 2019 26 minutes ago, Flatlander said: My post was pro cattle despite the flaws. Looks like you quoted the wrong post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted July 17, 2019 From the filing: "48. The Bar X cows degraded the resources in the Turkey/Colcord Pasture and caused significant problems in the Ponderosa and Colcord communities during those few months in 2015." Perhaps not establishing "communities" in such great wildlife habitat would have been a better alternative to avoid "significant problems." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ringer Report post Posted July 17, 2019 That's it. Thanks for the heads up. I am writing letters to advocate for more cattle in 23. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZkiller Report post Posted July 17, 2019 Well hopefully they shoot all the Lions like in the good ole days! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bojangles Report post Posted July 17, 2019 That group is shading the truth,the ranch in question is bar x.they work pretty close with different wildlife organizations from around here to keep waters going and get new waters going.The documents they provide from the 70’s is definitely not how things are done anymore.all ranches have a rest rotation system that prevents over grazing this is a text I got this morning regarding this thread from a rancher/hunter from unit 23. I don’t think he’ll mind if I share it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest akaspecials Report post Posted July 17, 2019 I'm not a proponent of cattle on public lands. That being said, the only things I hate more than barbed wire are lawyers and meddling out of staters. Please see below from the annual report of The Advocates for the West to see a list of their partners. It includes groups like the Sierra Club, Predator Defense, and the Center for Biological Diversity, which are NOT our friends. It appears as though the board and most active members reside in Idaho, Colorado, Rhode Island, and Oregon. As the OP said, do your research and make an opinion for yourself. Everything may be true about the cattle, or it may not. I don't know, but the Rim Neighbors group is in with dangerous bedfellows. Citation: Annual report where the graphic was taken from can be found here: https://advocateswest.org/2018-annual-report/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rim Neighbor Report post Posted July 17, 2019 13 hours ago, Delw said: Ummm the 3 senerios as you call them were guessing for your reasoning behind your new found "Cause". . you flat out lied when you stated this. Not surprised at yet again another baselessly screeched accusation by Delw. A guy who aggressively asked for my name, was given it and then hypocritically refused to ever give his own when called upon. I regret having to yet again engage but I was, right out, called a liar and so must respond with documents that demonstrate this guy’s seemingly endless ignorance. For all who are curious and think “maybe this guy Delw is right; Did Nick lie about how they came across the info; Did they not really do the FOIA requests?” – The answer is “Of course not.” Attached is a response from the US Forest Service to one of our many FOIA requests that Delw, so positively, stated I lied about. I don’t have time to sit here and attach all the requests and responses and documents. All the pertinent documents provided with the responses to our requests are on the “Documents” page of our website. It's one thing to be curious and ask questions of people who claim a thing, it is another to ignore all of the evidence they offer and begin name calling and hurling completely fabricated accusations at them. Had he simply asked for proof of how we came about this info. I would have thanked him for his curiosity and provided him with the same response from the Forest Service that I now attach to this comment. I hope those of you that are curious and want to learn more about this subject will check out our website at rimneighbors.org, review the studies and come to your own conclusions as to whether quadrupling cattle grazing in this area of Unit 23 will bring harm to the populations of deer and elk and their environment as it was shown to have done during the 70s. There is nothing else I can say. Doubtless he will have more fabricated accusations, but I refuse to address them any longer. Thank you all for your time. Response of 3-1-16.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Rim Neighbor said: I hope those of you that are curious and want to learn more about this subject... So in which community do you reside, Ponderosa or Colcord? And what were the "significant problems" caused in 2015? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jim Report post Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Rim Neighbor said: Not surprised at yet again another baselessly screeched accusation by Delw. A guy who aggressively asked for my name, was given it and then hypocritically refused to ever give his own when called upon. I regret having to yet again engage but I was, right out, called a liar and so must respond with documents that demonstrate this guy’s seemingly endless ignorance. For all who are curious and think “maybe this guy Delw is right; Did Nick lie about how they came across the info; Did they not really do the FOIA requests?” – The answer is “Of course not.” Attached is a response from the US Forest Service to one of our many FOIA requests that Delw, so positively, stated I lied about. I don’t have time to sit here and attach all the requests and responses and documents. All the pertinent documents provided with the responses to our requests are on the “Documents” page of our website. It's one thing to be curious and ask questions of people who claim a thing, it is another to ignore all of the evidence they offer and begin name calling and hurling completely fabricated accusations at them. Had he simply asked for proof of how we came about this info. I would have thanked him for his curiosity and provided him with the same response from the Forest Service that I now attach to this comment. I hope those of you that are curious and want to learn more about this subject will check out our website at rimneighbors.org, review the studies and come to your own conclusions as to whether quadrupling cattle grazing in this area of Unit 23 will bring harm to the populations of deer and elk and their environment as it was shown to have done during the 70s. There is nothing else I can say. Doubtless he will have more fabricated accusations, but I refuse to address them any longer. Thank you all for your time. Response of 3-1-16.pdf The thing is Delw has been around the Az boards a long butt time and we all know who he is. You showed up a couple days ago and want us to support a guy we have never heard of. Several members have pointed out that your information was not as straight forward as you say. So you have presented your info and it has been somewhat digested and it doesn't look like you sold to many on it's merits. You might have tried starting with the organizations that actually do great things for the Az wildlife and in which alot of this site tend to support. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Delw Report post Posted July 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Rim Neighbor said: Not surprised at yet again another baselessly screeched accusation by Delw. A guy who aggressively asked for my name, was given it and then hypocritically refused to ever give his own when called upon. I regret having to yet again engage but I was, right out, called a liar and so must respond with documents that demonstrate this guy’s seemingly endless ignorance. For all who are curious and think “maybe this guy Delw is right; Did Nick lie about how they came across the info; Did they not really do the FOIA requests?” – The answer is “Of course not.” Attached is a response from the US Forest Service to one of our many FOIA requests that Delw, so positively, stated I lied about. I don’t have time to sit here and attach all the requests and responses and documents. All the pertinent documents provided with the responses to our requests are on the “Documents” page of our website. It's one thing to be curious and ask questions of people who claim a thing, it is another to ignore all of the evidence they offer and begin name calling and hurling completely fabricated accusations at them. Had he simply asked for proof of how we came about this info. I would have thanked him for his curiosity and provided him with the same response from the Forest Service that I now attach to this comment. I hope those of you that are curious and want to learn more about this subject will check out our website at rimneighbors.org, review the studies and come to your own conclusions as to whether quadrupling cattle grazing in this area of Unit 23 will bring harm to the populations of deer and elk and their environment as it was shown to have done during the 70s. There is nothing else I can say. Doubtless he will have more fabricated accusations, but I refuse to address them any longer. Thank you all for your time. Response of 3-1-16.pdf for a lawyer your reading comprehension SUCKS. however your spin is up to par. I said you lied about this part, (highlighted) I never said anything about the FOIA request, you and the "WE" the people werent out camping or recreating with with each other and started counting cows. Quote We concerned ourselves with it because it is where we hunt and recreate. Upon noticing a sudden spike in cattle numbers in the area and seeing them in places where there previously were none, we sent out some FOIA requests to the Forest Service and discovered that the active permits and regulations were not being followed as they should have been. court docks show it as I am 100% correct on who you all are. Quote 3. your or the "WE" people are the wack jobs (pick any of them but heres a sample) green peace, earths first, wannbe hippies, Hate ranchers, we can make the forrest better type crowd, Susans etc etc. Dont you have an ambulance to go chase I aggressively asked for your name ???? let me guess your one of those Fagbook types aka Susans, I'll send you a "Hurt feeling Report" and you can make your poor poor pitiful me/drama queen case. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ringer Report post Posted July 17, 2019 Wow! That list is the who's who of enemies of hunters and fishermen. More cows, more cows, more cows!! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost85 Report post Posted July 17, 2019 I think he just wants our tags Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ringer Report post Posted July 17, 2019 Bet he doesn't eat meat. Then again maybe he does. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest oneshot Report post Posted July 17, 2019 And This^^^ is what failure looks like Rimmer... Thank You for that list AKA and the extra info DelW... (dem silly red-neck hunters won't do their research, let the lawyer run with it...hahaha) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AzDiamondHeat Report post Posted July 17, 2019 Mr. Dillenburg, Outdoor writer asked a legitimate question to which you have yet to respond. Please answer the following questions as well. If you are doing this for the benefit and welfare of the elk and deer hunting opportunities, who at the RMEF, NWTF, ADA, AMDO, MDF, etc have you spoken with and what was the response you received? I understand it will take you a little bit to google what each of those groups actually are so we will be patiently waiting for your answer. Additionally, as you claim to be a hunter and are actively trying to enlist the assistance of hunters, why would you align yourself with the absolute nastiest most evil groups of anti-hunters known in the U.S.? As has been stated, your "affiliates" are the who's who of groups that want to take away our rights. SO...you are either STUPID and don't know who you are in bed with, or you are a LIAR and think we are all idiots. Man up and admit which one you are. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
