Swivelhead Report post Posted July 18, 2019 55 minutes ago, Heat said: I disagree. They should leave this right where it is so we can see the type of crap we are going to be up against more and more. These citiots think they can buy a little land up north and use whatever means they can to get what they want. Things like livestsock, which are a way of life for some are mere nuisances to people like this. They also have no clue what it means and the grave consequences there can be to bear false witness against your neighbor. Agree with you NIck, this thread should stay. I am proud of my CWT brethren who through due dilligence sniffed out the truth concerning the OP's agenda. Kudos to you all. Controlled grazing, done properly enhances habitat IMO. The Bar X operators appear to be good people. Their application for grazing will be approved or disapproved base on the merit of the application. The OP is trying to circumvent science with emotion. Commenting of the grazing application would be appropriate. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Non-Typical Solutions Report post Posted July 18, 2019 7 hours ago, oneshot said: As my retired SEAL buddy would say, "Bing-Bang-Boom" hahaha... (Us former Marines have a more "colorful" saying...(Edited for content) I’m just glad to see we haven’t lost oneshot! Always says it like it is! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjvcon Report post Posted July 20, 2019 The list of "Client Partners" says a lot. I wouldn't pee on the Sierra Club if it were on fire and there were kegs of free beer for the fire fighting effort.......... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arizona Mule Deer Org Report post Posted July 21, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 2:57 PM, Rim Neighbor said: ATTENTION UNIT 23 LOVERS! Many of you know what a great resource Unit 23 is for hunting game such as Elk, Muleys, and Coues. Some of you might even enjoy the fisheries in the unit. In 2007 a local ranch was purchased by a new entity who now seeks to expand the cattle operation by 4 times what was allowed since 1979. Including into an area that the Forest Service had completely closed to grazing back in 1979. Despite what you might have heard about cattle water tanks, any benefit they might provide is outweighed by their direct competition with with deer and elk for the limited forage and browse. Regretfully, this was clearly demonstrated in the Forest Service’s own studies done on this precise Allotment back in the 70s and 80s when their studies showed that the cattle (in smaller numbers than are now proposed for by the current ranch owner) denuded the forest so badly that Elk had left the Naegelin Rim entirely. The deer and elk know where the springs and seeps are. If you want to help preserve Unit 23 from being overgrazed then you can visit our website at Rimneighbors.org. Check out our website and send your comments into the Forest Service. These comments are due by July 23. We do not ask for donations, nor do we get paid to do this in any way. The only payment we get is the possibility of a healthy and diverse ecosystem under the Rim so we can continue to enjoy all the hunting seasons to the fullest. I really hope that you will take the time to look at our website. Not all land is created equal. Cattle ranching is proper in some areas and improper in others. We are not against ranching. We are against overgrazing to the detriment of wildlife resources. The science is on our side. This is not a proper area for the numbers now being sought. Don’t believe us? Read about the Forest Service findings in the 70s and 80s. Their studies are on the “Documents” page of our website. All of the claims made in our synopses and summaries found on our website are cites directly from those studies. This is a serious threat to many game species and all riparian areas in this allotment. I guarantee what you read will shock you. I am a hunter, and I care about wildlife and the health and diversity of this ecosystem. We need all of the voices we can get. Sorry there isn’t much time left to comment but getting all this together has taken time and this is not how any of us involved make our living. Again, our website is Rimneighbors.org Mr Dillenburg, I received an email from one of our Board of Directors, asking that I read a forum on Coueswhitetail.com. After reading your initial statements about the Bar X Ranch, the USFS and your I’ll informed statement about water tanks, I knew exactly who had written this blog. Your group of environmentalists and “anti’s” are familiar to many Sportsmans organizations, the Gila County ranching community and the USFS, your reputation precedes you. A little about myself and the organization I represent, Arizona Mule Deer Organization (AMDO). My name is Jim Lawrence, president of AMDO. I have been in the wildlife conservation arena for over 15 years, served on the Board of Directors with National groups - Mule Deer Foundation and Arizona Wildlife Federation and have received several State / National awards for my conservation work. I sit on several committees with AZGFD, including the Habitat Partnership Committee (HPC) and the Landowner-Leasee-Sportsman Relationship Committee. I am also working on a Master Stewardship Agreement with USFS on all 6 forests in Arizona. AMDO is a 501 (c) 3 non profit conservation organization, who’s mission is to improve and enhance habitat for our struggling Mule Deer. You can find out more by visiting www.azmuledeer.org. AMDO is very familiar with the Bar X Ranch, I believe my organization can speak with confidence about the ranch, the owners and their commitment to wildlife and habitat conservation. Your comments about the Bar X Ranch couldn’t be any further from the truth. AMDO has worked extensively with Mike and Diana Hemovich and the Bar X Ranch over the past 6 years, developing waters for wildlife, rebuilding catchments, adding solar to all the Bar X Wells, adding water storage tanks and pipelines, removing old barbed wire fences that were a hazard to wildlife and even hosting a workshop for Chinese Forestry / Animal Biologists. Since purchasing the ranch 13 years ago, Mike and Diana have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars in to improving habitat and infrastructure for both their livestock and wildlife. As I work with ranch’s all over Arizona on a daily basis, you won’t find a more respected or trusted ranch. Here is a little info on the Bar X you might not know. In 2018, Mike Hemovich received one of AZGFDs highest honors, “Wildlife Steward of the Year” award, he is past president of the Society for Range Management, current President of the Gila County Cattle Growers Association and actively participates with USFS in yearly range monitoring on the ranch. Mike and Diana take a science based approach to managing the ranch, working closely with USFS and other organizations to monitor conditions on the ranch. With respects to USFS and the Tonto National Forest, here again you won’t find a better managed and respected team of professionals than the Tonto. We work with all Arizona forests and can speak with experience. I’m sure my letter here today will not stop your groups continued and unwarranted harassment of both the Bar X and the USFS, but wanted to assure you that we fully support them. Lastly, it’s obvious that you are either ill advised or sadly uninformed about the correlation between ranchers, wildlife and waters. I would love to show you hundreds of photos of Arizona wildlife, watering at ranch built and maintained water sources. Without these waters our wildlife would surely suffer. I’d like to invite you to visit the Bar X with me at your convenience, where you will see how development of these waters has exploded the population of Turkey, Elk, Deer and Bears. Water development is AMDO’s specialty, so we do know a little bit about the subject. Jim Lawrence President Arizona Mule Deer Organization 20 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ringer Report post Posted July 21, 2019 Some people just deserve a good beating. Thanks for clearing this up Jim. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZkiller Report post Posted July 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Ringer said: Some people just deserve a good beating. Thanks for clearing this up Jim. I was thinking a high five! In the face! With a chair! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swivelhead Report post Posted July 21, 2019 6 hours ago, Arizona Mule Deer Org said: Mr Dillenburg, I received an email from one of our Board of Directors, asking that I read a forum on Coueswhitetail.com. After reading your initial statements about the Bar X Ranch, the USFS and your I’ll informed statement about water tanks, I knew exactly who had written this blog. Your group of environmentalists and “anti’s” are familiar to many Sportsmans organizations, the Gila County ranching community and the USFS, your reputation precedes you. A little about myself and the organization I represent, Arizona Mule Deer Organization (AMDO). My name is Jim Lawrence, president of AMDO. I have been in the wildlife conservation arena for over 15 years, served on the Board of Directors with National groups - Mule Deer Foundation and Arizona Wildlife Federation and have received several State / National awards for my conservation work. I sit on several committees with AZGFD, including the Habitat Partnership Committee (HPC) and the Landowner-Leasee-Sportsman Relationship Committee. I am also working on a Master Stewardship Agreement with USFS on all 6 forests in Arizona. AMDO is a 501 (c) 3 non profit conservation organization, who’s mission is to improve and enhance habitat for our struggling Mule Deer. You can find out more by visiting www.azmuledeer.org. AMDO is very familiar with the Bar X Ranch, I believe my organization can speak with confidence about the ranch, the owners and their commitment to wildlife and habitat conservation. Your comments about the Bar X Ranch couldn’t be any further from the truth. AMDO has worked extensively with Mike and Diana Hemovich and the Bar X Ranch over the past 6 years, developing waters for wildlife, rebuilding catchments, adding solar to all the Bar X Wells, adding water storage tanks and pipelines, removing old barbed wire fences that were a hazard to wildlife and even hosting a workshop for Chinese Forestry / Animal Biologists. Since purchasing the ranch 13 years ago, Mike and Diana have poured hundreds of thousands of dollars in to improving habitat and infrastructure for both their livestock and wildlife. As I work with ranch’s all over Arizona on a daily basis, you won’t find a more respected or trusted ranch. Here is a little info on the Bar X you might not know. In 2018, Mike Hemovich received one of AZGFDs highest honors, “Wildlife Steward of the Year” award, he is past president of the Society for Range Management, current President of the Gila County Cattle Growers Association and actively participates with USFS in yearly range monitoring on the ranch. Mike and Diana take a science based approach to managing the ranch, working closely with USFS and other organizations to monitor conditions on the ranch. With respects to USFS and the Tonto National Forest, here again you won’t find a better managed and respected team of professionals than the Tonto. We work with all Arizona forests and can speak with experience. I’m sure my letter here today will not stop your groups continued and unwarranted harassment of both the Bar X and the USFS, but wanted to assure you that we fully support them. Lastly, it’s obvious that you are either ill advised or sadly uninformed about the correlation between ranchers, wildlife and waters. I would love to show you hundreds of photos of Arizona wildlife, watering at ranch built and maintained water sources. Without these waters our wildlife would surely suffer. I’d like to invite you to visit the Bar X with me at your convenience, where you will see how development of these waters has exploded the population of Turkey, Elk, Deer and Bears. Water development is AMDO’s specialty, so we do know a little bit about the subject. Jim Lawrence President Arizona Mule Deer Organization Mr. Lawrence, Thank you for the background on the Bar X ranch owners. Appreciate the work the deer association and other like minded organizations perfrom. Welcome to the site. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
creed Report post Posted July 21, 2019 I have been involved with agriculture my entire life. I made my living farming. I grew up on a farm with cattle and have known many ranchers. My experience with them is that they are stewards of the land and do much more good for the environment than harm. The cooperation between the the AMDO and the Bar X is an example of what can be done when organizations and ranchers work together. And we as hunters benefit. Thank you! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjvcon Report post Posted July 21, 2019 Anyone take a bet on whether the OP takes Mr. Lawrence up on his offer? My bet is NOT A CHANCE....... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idgaf Report post Posted July 21, 2019 Sorry if I duplicate anything that was already said. Lawyer Dick is teamed up a organization that calls themselves Advocates of the west - https://advocateswest.org/ - "Advocates for the West fights to protect the West’s most treasured natural landscapes and native wildlife. Read up on some of our most pressing current legal battles:" Good Read. I snipped a few of the highlights for you guys to enjoy. Here are some of their cases for AZ. According to the website they have already won After reviewing their website NONE of the board of directors are from Arizona or even the Southwest for the matter. But if you want to follow Lawyer Dicks Viewpoints that is up to you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Explorer Report post Posted July 21, 2019 If these guys are as good as they say maybe they can get these burro and wild horse hunts going as well as let us locals get rid of the invasion of buffalo in the grand canyon. Or better yet stop housing developments in prime hunting spots. I preffer the douchebag rancher over the yuppy invasion that wants to change everything! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idgaf Report post Posted July 21, 2019 A brief Synopsis of them according to Guidestar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ctafoya Report post Posted July 21, 2019 I doubt this dbag will be back on here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CatfishKev Report post Posted July 21, 2019 That synopsis should read... clean water in the west through interrogation regression and litigation....... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrmlwhite Report post Posted July 22, 2019 Mr. Lawrence, thank you for all that you and your organization do on behalf of wildlife and sportsmen alike. It is much appreciated. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
