Heat Report post Posted July 17, 2019 If these issues are legit, why are you and your parents taking this on rather than trying to bring the resources of a legitimate wildlife advocacy group like the Arizona Deer Association or the Arizona Elk Society to bare against the Forest Service? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AzDiamondHeat Report post Posted July 17, 2019 Power line cows..... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muledeerarea33? Report post Posted July 17, 2019 100 pages? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Delw Report post Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Rim Neighbor said: Ha, I can promise you that we have zero aspirations in becoming the next CBD. The group of us working on this is very small and this has sucked up enough time of ours as it is. If you visit our website you will see that we only involve ourselves with Unit 23 and this one Allotment. We concerned ourselves with it because it is where we hunt and recreate. Upon noticing a sudden spike in cattle numbers in the area and seeing them in places where there previously were none, we sent out some FOIA requests to the Forest Service and discovered that the active permits and regulations were not being followed as they should have been. We saw that the number of cattle they now propose is larger than the previous amount they allowed for (in the 70s) on this very same allotment that the Forest Service had demonstrated caused significant harm to the environment and quantity of game animals in the allotment. Since they weren't following proper procedure with regard to reintroduction and and cattle number increases, we decided to form this organization for this one specific purpose of making sure there was a voice to speak for the hunters, fisherman and other recreationists. All information on our website is true and cited obsessively. The information from the Forest Service Studies is readily available to you on the "Documents" page of our website for purposes of validation. this has Bullshit written all over it, there is something more to it. reason being. are highlighted. what camper hunter or fishermen see some cows then see more the next time they go out and GO hey I am going to send out some FOIA'S and see whats up as there wasnt this many last time. You or the "WE" People didnt notice this. the information was giving to you somehow some way, or you got wind of the land sale, someone informed you or the "WE" people of it and it went from there. 1. your or the "WE" people are either jealous cause you got out bid on the land sale. 2. your or the "WE" people are opposed to any type of land sale unless it has to do with building more houses ie pro devolopment 3. your or the "WE" people are the wack jobs (pick any of them but heres a sample) green peace, earths first, wannbe hippies, Hate ranchers, we can make the forrest better type crowd, Susans etc etc. seen a ton of bullshit in my life and is one of them. Mainly due to the text in bold you wrote. it wouldnt have been a big deal if you would have said "hey I became aware of this land sale and the increased amount of cattle being they want to put on this parcel etc etc. but bullshit is just that bullshit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heat Report post Posted July 17, 2019 Anybody on here neighbors with any of these folks right here? https://advocateswest.org/the-advocates/board/ https://advocateswest.org/the-advocates/staff/ https://advocateswest.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/4-11-18-Mogollon-Rim-Brief-Filed.pdf https://advocateswest.org/case/mogollon-rim-cattle-grazing/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rim Neighbor Report post Posted July 17, 2019 42 minutes ago, Delw said: this has Bullshit written all over it, there is something more to it. reason being. are highlighted. what camper hunter or fishermen see some cows then see more the next time they go out and GO hey I am going to send out some FOIA'S and see whats up as there wasnt this many last time. You or the "WE" People didnt notice this. the information was giving to you somehow some way, or you got wind of the land sale, someone informed you or the "WE" people of it and it went from there. 1. your or the "WE" people are either jealous cause you got out bid on the land sale. 2. your or the "WE" people are opposed to any type of land sale unless it has to do with building more houses ie pro devolopment 3. your or the "WE" people are the wack jobs (pick any of them but heres a sample) green peace, earths first, wannbe hippies, Hate ranchers, we can make the forrest better type crowd, Susans etc etc. seen a ton of bullshit in my life and is one of them. Mainly due to the text in bold you wrote. it wouldnt have been a big deal if you would have said "hey I became aware of this land sale and the increased amount of cattle being they want to put on this parcel etc etc. but bullshit is just that bullshit. The three scenarios outlined above are completely fabricated. The slightest amount of research will show that none of these scenarios are in line whatsoever with our position on the issue. I strongly encourage anyone who wants to learn more about this situation to research as much as you care to and you will see very soon that everything this guy is saying is completely without merit. What we are doing is simply in the interests of anyone who wants to enjoy the most prosperous hunting possible in Unit 23, and if after exploring the website, you don't agree, then that's just fine. My intention in creating this thread was to shed light on an issue that is deeply concerning to many yet is not easy to come by on your own. Our website has a trove of unbiased, factual studies that people can research and come to their own conclusions about. Anyone can feel free to reach out to me and I will be happy to provide them with any information I can. Rimneighbors.org. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Delw Report post Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rim Neighbor said: The three scenarios outlined above are completely fabricated. The slightest amount of research will show that none of these scenarios are in line whatsoever with our position on the issue. I strongly encourage anyone who wants to learn more about this situation to research as much as you care to and you will see very soon that everything this guy is saying is completely without merit. What we are doing is simply in the interests of anyone who wants to enjoy the most prosperous hunting possible in Unit 23, and if after exploring the website, you don't agree, then that's just fine. My intention in creating this thread was to shed light on an issue that is deeply concerning to many yet is not easy to come by on your own. Our website has a trove of unbiased, factual studies that people can research and come to their own conclusions about. Anyone can feel free to reach out to me and I will be happy to provide them with any information I can. Rimneighbors.org. Ummm the 3 senerios as you call them were guessing for your reasoning behind your new found "Cause". . you flat out lied when you stated this. Quote We concerned ourselves with it because it is where we hunt and recreate. Upon noticing a sudden spike in cattle numbers in the area and seeing them in places where there previously were none, we sent out some FOIA requests to the Forest Service and discovered that the active permits and regulations were not being followed as they should have been. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rim Neighbor Report post Posted July 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Heat said: Anybody on here neighbors with any of these folks right here? https://advocateswest.org/the-advocates/board/ https://advocateswest.org/the-advocates/staff/ https://advocateswest.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/4-11-18-Mogollon-Rim-Brief-Filed.pdf https://advocateswest.org/case/mogollon-rim-cattle-grazing/ Yes. We partnered with Advocates for the West and were successful in getting the Forest Service to at least perform an Environmental Assessment before going forward with reintroduction and increase that was precluded by the operating permit. Now we are in the commenting stage for the Environmental Assessment where people can tell the Forest Service what they think. That is all detailed in the website, and the complaint is also in the documents page. So, to address your earlier post, we did partner with a legitimate wildlife advocacy group. We were successful and we are simply now in a public comment phase. Someone in the forest service will later make a decision as to whether or not these numbers should be allowed and peoples' voices will be heard via their comments they submit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W250 Report post Posted July 17, 2019 Where do 90% of the people in unit 10 hunt? Oh yeah the BIG BO and what is the BIG BO a cattle ranch. Anyone that has ever ran cows on Forrest service land knows it’s a pain, they manage their land to benefit them and the ranches manage it to benefit everyone! Cows make the world go round!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Delw Report post Posted July 17, 2019 26 minutes ago, Heat said: Anybody on here neighbors with any of these folks right here? https://advocateswest.org/the-advocates/board/ https://advocateswest.org/the-advocates/staff/ https://advocateswest.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/4-11-18-Mogollon-Rim-Brief-Filed.pdf https://advocateswest.org/case/mogollon-rim-cattle-grazing/ seems the "WE" people are the neighbor hoods in the local area and Hired the https://advocateswest.org/the-advocates/board/ the lawyer kids Father to file suit. 4-11-18-Mogollon-Rim-Brief-Filed.pdf 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Delw Report post Posted July 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, Rim Neighbor said: Yes. We partnered with Advocates for the West and were successful in getting the Forest Service to at least perform an Environmental Assessment before going forward with reintroduction and increase that was precluded by the operating permit. Now we are in the commenting stage for the Environmental Assessment where people can tell the Forest Service what they think. That is all detailed in the website, and the complaint is also in the documents page. So, to address your earlier post, we did partner with a legitimate wildlife advocacy group. We were successful and we are simply now in a public comment phase. Someone in the forest service will later make a decision as to whether or not these numbers should be allowed and peoples' voices will be heard via their comments they submit. See if you would have started off by TELLING THE TRUTH in the 1st post you wouldnt have gotten any shoot. But flat out lieing about Quote We concerned ourselves with it because it is where we hunt and recreate. Upon noticing a sudden spike in cattle numbers in the area and seeing them in places where there previously were none, we sent out some FOIA requests to the Forest Service and discovered that the active permits and regulations were not being followed as they should have been. is BS. and and my #3 senerios was correct Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swivelhead Report post Posted July 17, 2019 36 minutes ago, Heat said: Anybody on here neighbors with any of these folks right here? https://advocateswest.org/the-advocates/board/ https://advocateswest.org/the-advocates/staff/ https://advocateswest.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/4-11-18-Mogollon-Rim-Brief-Filed.pdf https://advocateswest.org/case/mogollon-rim-cattle-grazing/ Nick, thanks for posting these links. Very revealing. Full on Justic Act ecolitigants. Rimneighbors.org, you can go away now. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Explorer Report post Posted July 17, 2019 The first thing i noticed is that you keep saying forest service when actually the department of agriculture is who regulates grazing rights. And that is a dead end battle. Research the regulations on grazing rights and you will find every rancher abuses the rules just based on the amount of horses allowed to graze per allotted sections. I dont agree on everything ranchers do but I see a trend of the old boys dying off and the family selling land/wildlife habitat to developers and making alot more of a mess than a few grazing violations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flatlander Report post Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Explorer said: The first thing i noticed is that you keep saying forest service when actually the department of agriculture is who regulates grazing rights. And that is a dead end battle. Research the regulations on grazing rights and you will find every rancher abuses the rules just based on the amount of horses allowed to graze per allotted sections. I dont agree on everything ranchers do but I see a trend of the old boys dying off and the family selling land/wildlife habitat to developers and making alot more of a mess than a few grazing violations. I have no idea who you are or why you came on here misrepresentIng yourself but you should have just came on and shot straight from the beginning. You kicked a hornets nest man. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bojangles Report post Posted July 17, 2019 I’m for cattle. some years I get skunked and still want a steak. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
