ctafoya Report post Posted May 1, 2019 I'm actually surprised it took this long to start screwing us close to the valley. https://www.azgfd.com/tonto-national-forest-releases-supplemental-environmental-impact-statement-for-motorized-travel/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildwoody Report post Posted May 1, 2019 They've gone MAD.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wellhead Report post Posted May 2, 2019 Sounds like Tonto is going to slowly close down our motorized access to our lands Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oz31p Report post Posted May 2, 2019 I learned my lesson With Coconino. If they aren’t pipe gated or bermed. I’ll take my chances. I’m done with the selective enforcement. You can’t close a road for me and keep it open for ranchers or fs/g&f. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MT_Sourdough Report post Posted May 2, 2019 I hear ya on the enforcement part. While I myself like the idea of limiting trails and roads, I've seen that it don't mean squat unless they enforce it. Without enforcement, I'll pretty much go where I want because it sucks to walk into an area just to get passed by others on ATV, side by side, 4x4 or whatever. They finally changed the Google Earth images that showed ATV tracks on snow all over the Woodchute Wilderness. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oz31p Report post Posted May 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, MT_Sourdough said: I hear ya on the enforcement part. While I myself like the idea of limiting trails and roads, I've seen that it don't mean squat unless they enforce it. Without enforcement, I'll pretty much go where I want because it sucks to walk into an area just to get passed by others on ATV, side by side, 4x4 or whatever. They finally changed the Google Earth images that showed ATV tracks on snow all over the Woodchute Wilderness. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I’m pretty familiar with woodchute. If a atv passed me on the trail I would not want to be held responsible for my actions. I do think there’s too many roads. If you want to actually close them. Welded gate/big berm I’d be fine with it but this closed for some and open for others is crap. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted May 2, 2019 Public land is one of the few things that separate us from just about every other state in this country. If USFS gets their way, it's going to be limited access, pay-to-play all over the state. And AZGFD won't do a thing about it because, well, they don't exactly have a track record of going against their "Big Brother" or whatever it is. Tangent starting here - we pay state, local, federal taxes + a whole bunch more, then we pay extra tax on outdoor equipment, tax on gas - then we get to Roosevelt Lake, and have to buy an additional "Tonto Pass", it's more if you have a boat or RV, just to access - you guessed it - public land. But it's not really "public" is it? We pay for the people who tell us how and when we can use it, but at the end of the day, it's theirs - not ours. And that is broken. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mbiewer Report post Posted May 2, 2019 the problem isn't "US"... its "THEM".... the go faster crowd... And I don't mean to lump all utv riders together by any means. My buddy has one for hunting...he's not in the "faster" group. The perfect example of this is, we were in 23 for turkey this past weekend... Driving out from lunch in mid afternoon... my brother said "oh there's a razor behind us".... we were courteous, we found a spot and pulled over... they passed us and proclaimed "7 more".... well, we creeped up to a shady spot. the 7 wound up being 12... and everyone of them where treating that little forest road like it was a Baja race... sliding the small bends and jumping the small bumps in the down hill slope. Sure, do they have the right to be out there? absolutely... but do they foster the same stewardship for the trails and environment...nope; its "skinny pedal on the right" mentality. And its not just SxS (although theyre the most predominant)... I almost had a guy in a jeep wipe me out taking the kids up to four peaks once, because he was "having fun in his machine" There's no way to change the mentality of the general public. (wasn't it less than a year ago, that jack wagon went over the edge of the rim from going to fast?) ... Ban the machines, or close the trails... Laws and rules aren't there for the few of us that know a closed area sign isn't the place to be, or that a burmed road isn't open.... Unfortunately though, its those of us that know what the rules are, and suffer the lack of access Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roosevelt Mark Report post Posted May 2, 2019 So what rules "as you say" were they breaking? Just curious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ctafoya Report post Posted May 2, 2019 I get frustrated with big brother restricting our access to lands, but I'm sure if people would quit driving off of trails and leaving thier trash, beer cans, cigarette butts, etc. everywhere it wouldn't be like this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ohthatguy Report post Posted May 3, 2019 Well, if what I can see is the complete list, there is a grand total of 3 comments on their interactive web site over the last 3.5 weeks and one of those looks to simply be a gratuitous comment from an ADOT engineer. If you want to voice your opinion on it, they are giving you a chance to do it right now. If clicking isn't your thing, they are accepting mailed in comments that are postmarked no later than May 21st, 2019. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CatfishKev Report post Posted May 3, 2019 19 hours ago, Roosevelt Mark said: So what rules "as you say" were they breaking? Just curious. Intentionally whipping around corners, speeding and jumping machines would qualify i believe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MULEPACKHUNTER Report post Posted May 3, 2019 As much as I like having less roads in our forests I can't say it should be blamed on UTV users, I myself have not seen any issues with these people. They are always super nice and pull off when I'm out riding bikes, mules, running etc. same with the mtn bike crowd, super courteous as far as I've seen. It's usually the beat up old Dodge Durango or quad that goes ripping past at 70 mph. I could do without a road right to every water hole and also secondary and tertiary 4 digit forest roads Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roosevelt Mark Report post Posted May 3, 2019 4 hours ago, CatfishKev said: Intentionally whipping around corners, speeding and jumping machines would qualify i believe. Speeding would be a ticket, I don't know how you would jump an atv or side by side on a road. I never heard of whipping being against the rules. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
photofool Report post Posted May 3, 2019 On 5/2/2019 at 12:21 PM, ctafoya said: I get frustrated with big brother restricting our access to lands, but I'm sure if people would quit driving off of trails and leaving thier trash, beer cans, cigarette butts, etc. everywhere it wouldn't be like this. Yep! People have no one to blame but there selves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
