Rrrrrattle Rattle

[Mr. Natural]

Yeah, the color and pattern variation on those speckleds is pretty wild.  And I agree that the pattern on the one in the earlier photo is quite stark.  But I just haven't come up with a viable alternative.

[IA Born]

Its definitely a speckled. Mr. Natural.  The head is proportionate for its body, which rules out tigers.  Tiger rattlesnakes have a very disproportionately small head for their body size.  Specks can vary from pinkish to orange to white to gray. Tigers are usually pink/orange, but with more banding than the rhomboid patterns of a speck.  Definitely not a mohave (they changed the official spelling a couple of years ago).  Mohaves were my research specimen for grad school and they can be just as big and plump as a diamondback and even have the same color pattern, especially where the two species overlap.  Mohaves tend to be more green and have smaller/broken black banding on the tail, but you can't take that to the bank. The only way to be 100% its a Mohave is to look for two large scutes (scales) between the eyes, compared to 7 or more between the eyes of a diamondback.  If you're that close, you're too close (for most normal people).  I'm far from normal as I had to collect blood and venom from live specimens, so I handled more than my share of mohaves, as well as many other species.

Someday, when we're all sitting around the campfire, I'll tell you what happens when you accidentally snort crystallized mohave toxin (the nuerotoxic venom of Mohave rattlesnakes).

[AZDirtyTaco]

"Someday, when we're all sitting around the campfire, I'll tell you what happens when you accidentally snort crystallized mohave toxin (the nuerotoxic venom of Mohave rattlesnakes)."

Now that right there would be a story worth hearing!  Not that there are any that I recall weren't worth hearing around a campfire....  

[Mr. Natural]

8 hours ago, IA Born said:

Someday, when we're all sitting around the campfire, I'll tell you what happens when you accidentally snort crystallized mohave toxin (the nuerotoxic venom of Mohave rattlesnakes).

You may proceed.

[Edge]

I've heard up north y'all snort some weird chit, IA born. Did you slither about and meet the great limbless spirit on your toxic trip?

I read this story years ago, type it again, sir.

[AZDirtyTaco]

 

 

1

13 hours ago, forepaw said:

A park ranger friend stepped out onto his driveway one evening and a speckled bit him on the ankle.  He got life-flighted pretty quickly, and still spent 3 days in ICU in Las Vegas.  They are pretty dangerous.

forepaw

And here we were telling all of these warm n' fuzzy stories about how pretty these things are UNTIL you had to chime in....  

[Mr. Natural]

29 minutes ago, Edge said:

I read this story years ago, type it again, sir.

Ah, yes...I found it here:

The snake in the OP in that thread looks like another speckled.

[Edge]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Natural said:

Ah, yes...I found it here:

The snake in the OP in that thread looks like another speckled.

A good read for sure.

Portions of IA borns post reminds me of a neighbor lady got bit on the web of her thumb by a small, young diamondback. She was doing yard work and grabbed it thinking it was a twig.

The doc at the ER gave her no treatment but observed the swelling and red travel up her arm over several hours. She got bored and went home.

[IA Born]

That all brought up a great blast from the past.  I forgot I put some of the story in writing.  There's way more to it, though, and a write-up won't do it justice.  You bring your beer, Tim and Mr. Nature, I'll bring my root beer (quit drinking 5.5 years ago), and I'll tell the rest and we'll have fun swapping other stories.

And for what its worth, research has demonstrated that passive defense is a rattlesnake's most frequently used defense mechanism.  Most times (emphasis: MOST), rattlesnakes will sit quietly and let threats walk on by.  I've been in a group of 10 and it was the 9th or 10th person hiking that saw the snake finally. 

And since we're sharing cool pics, blacktails (C. molossus) are my favorite in Arizona, especially from the Huachucas and Chiricahuas.  Two wicked cool molossus I crossed paths with in different canyons in the Huachucas back in the day.

[Mr. Natural]

2 hours ago, IA Born said:

That all brought up a great blast from the past.  I forgot I put some of the story in writing.  There's way more to it, though, and a write-up won't do it justice.  You bring your beer, Tim and Mr. Nature, I'll bring my root beer (quit drinking 5.5 years ago), and I'll tell the rest and we'll have fun swapping other stories.

And for what its worth, research has demonstrated that passive defense is a rattlesnake's most frequently used defense mechanism.  Most times (emphasis: MOST), rattlesnakes will sit quietly and let threats walk on by.  I've been in a group of 10 and it was the 9th or 10th person hiking that saw the snake finally. 

And since we're sharing cool pics, blacktails (C. molossus) are my favorite in Arizona, especially from the Huachucas and Chiricahuas.  Two wicked cool molossus I crossed paths with in different canyons in the Huachucas back in the day.

I agree that blacktails are pretty dang interesting.  I "like" tigers, too.  I have seen a couple of references to rattlesnake venom toxicity that indicate that the venom of tiger rattlesnakes is among the most toxic, drop for drop, of the rattlesnakes, having both neurotoxic and hemotoxic components.  Also that they are not the most "deadly" of the rattlesnakes due to their relative small size and small head relative to body size so they tend not to deliver much venom.  I don't know if all that is true.

BTW, I am originally from IA as well...SW Iowa.

And root beer works for me.

[IA Born]

1 hour ago, Mr. Natural said:

I agree that blacktails are pretty dang interesting.  I "like" tigers, too.  I have see a couple of references to rattlesnake venom toxicity that indicate that the venom of tiger rattlesnakes is among the most toxic, drop for drop, of the rattlesnakes, having both neurotoxic and hemotoxic components.  Also that they are not the most "deadly" of the rattlesnakes due to their relative small size and small head relative to body size so they tend not to deliver much venom.  I don't know if all that is true.

BTW, I am originally from IA as well...SW Iowa.

And root beer works for me.

That is very true about tiger rattlesnakes and their venom.  Their venom is up there in toxicity with the Mohave rattlensakes that possess Mohave toxin (the neurotoxin).  To give you an idea of the toxicity of Mohave toxin, it has an LD50 (lethal dose that kills 50% of your test population) of 0.14-0.25 micrograms/liter, whereas diamondback rattlesnakes have an LD50 of 3.0-5.0 micrograms/liter.  That's a huge order of magnitude difference in toxicity.  Tiger rattlesnakes are very close to the former.

Where in SW Iowa? I grew up about 30 minutes east of Des Moines.

[Mr. Natural]

1 minute ago, IA Born said:

Where in SW Iowa? I grew up about 30 minutes east of Des Moines.

In the "bottom row of counties", as the joke goes.  Mount Ayr to be exact.

[IA Born]

I know the bottom row well!  My mom's family is from Davis County (Bloomfield).  Dad's is from Knoxville and Pleasantville.  

[forepaw]

1 hour ago, IA Born said:

That is very true about tiger rattlesnakes and their venom.  Their venom is up there in toxicity with the Mohave rattlensakes that possess Mohave toxin (the neurotoxin).  To give you an idea of the toxicity of Mohave toxin, it has an LD50 (lethal dose that kills 50% of your test population) of 0.14-0.25 micrograms/liter, whereas diamondback rattlesnakes have an LD50 of 3.0-5.0 micrograms/liter.  That's a huge order of magnitude difference in toxicity.  Tiger rattlesnakes are very close to the former.

Where in SW Iowa? I grew up about 30 minutes east of Des Moines.

Otherwise known as parts per billion.  The 1/2 of the test population (assume rats) that survived must been sick for days.  By the way, very good reading about venomous AZ reptiles can be found in the book "Gila Monster - Facts and Folklore of America's Aztec Lizard" by David E. Brown and Neil B. Carmony.  P. 73 references the death of well-known physician and herpetologist Frederick Shannon, M.D. following a bite by a Mohave rattler in 1965.

forepaw

[Edge]

4 hours ago, IA Born said:

That is very true about tiger rattlesnakes and their venom.  Their venom is up there in toxicity with the Mohave rattlensakes that possess Mohave toxin (the neurotoxin).  To give you an idea of the toxicity of Mohave toxin, it has an LD50 (lethal dose that kills 50% of your test population) of 0.14-0.25 micrograms/liter, whereas diamondback rattlesnakes have an LD50 of 3.0-5.0 micrograms/liter.  That's a huge order of magnitude difference in toxicity.  Tiger rattlesnakes are very close to the former.

Where in SW Iowa? I grew up about 30 minutes east of Des Moines.

I read where the Specaled Rattles has a nasty toxic bite. How does he compare with a Mohave?