Rrrrrattle Rattle

[AZ8]

There was a thread on Bowsite back in 2018 from a guy that got bit from a timber rattler. He detailed his entire ordeal, complete with pics. Real eye opener that makes you think how you’d handle the situation.  $300,000 hospital bill! 

[trphyhntr]

29 minutes ago, AZ8 said:

There was a thread on Bowsite back in 2018 from a guy that got bit from a timber rattler. He detailed his entire ordeal, complete with pics. Real eye opener that makes you think how you’d handle the situation.  $300,000 hospital bill! 

was he bit in the hand?

[Allan]

7 hours ago, IA Born said:

 

Where in SW Iowa? I grew up about 30 minutes east of Des Moines.

I came across several large green colored rattlers in unit 19A last year while bear hunting. I wondered if they were Mojave’s but didn’t realize they got so big. 

Another former Iowa farm boy here, about 90 minutes east of Des Moines between Grinnell and Marengo in Iowa County. 

[AZ8]

2 hours ago, trphyhntr said:

was he bit in the hand?

Upper shin. 

[IAMMAC]

While camping at the Spring Crappie Fest put on by the Arizona Crappie Association I stumbled upon a rattler that was next to my truck in the early evening.  Luckily it was not coiled and I actually saw it since it was not dark yet.  Scared the bejesus out of me and it was removed from camp.

[IA Born]

14 hours ago, Edge said:

I read where the Specaled Rattles has a nasty toxic bite. How does he compare with a Mohave?

I'll have to go back into my venom research papers and see what they say about specks.  Last I knew, they were pretty run-of-the-mill with hemotoxins, like a diamond-backed.  Not much compares to Mohaves in North America, but they are out there (midget faded, tiger, southern pacific).

[AZDirtyTaco]

On 4/25/2019 at 5:20 PM, AZ8 said:

There was a thread on Bowsite back in 2018 from a guy that got bit from a timber rattler. He detailed his entire ordeal, complete with pics. Real eye opener that makes you think how you’d handle the situation.  $300,000 hospital bill! 

Stories like this are more of what my aim was when posting the thread. Just trying to get a handle on how much consideration I really need to give to the "what if" portion of the conversation. At this stage, I feel like our normal heavy hiking boots with gators should be decent insurance against the lowerish odds of a strike. What was most interesting to me about that story is how that dude needed to hike out on his own power and how truly detrimental that could have been for him. Add another mile to that trip and we might be reading a biography instead... Which has always been my biggest hang-up, especially before having the safety net of one of the personal emergency distress devices out there. My InReach stays in my chest rig which stays attached to me at all times in the backcountry, but I might start even start sleeping with that puppy under my pillow. 

For the sake of conversation - So what does one do if they get bit and can see/feel signs that a significant amount of venom was released while miles deep into the wilderness, in big canyon country, lots of elevation to deal with, etc. while solo and with no SPOT or InReach type of device or... maybe it is busted or dead? Basically, you're on your own and self-rescue is your only option.

[IA Born]

The best thing you can do is get to a high point and get help via cell or SPOT/InReach, etc.  Barring that option, the next best thing you can do is to stay calm (right?) and hike out as quickly as you can, while not getting your blood pumping too hard.  I say that, because you don't want an increased blood flow moving the venom around any faster than necessary.  There up to 43 different proteins in venom, ranging from hemorrhagic to necrotic to neurotoxic.  If you carry a Sawyer extractor, they are in the category of "Might help a little, but won't hurt to try".   Keep in mind that the "might" is emphasized for a reason.  I have seen the data on them and they really aren't all that they're cracked up to be.  When I have more time, I can indulge more about the success (lack thereof) rate when using those in trial studies.

I can give you the "don't do" list much easier.  Don't use a tourniquet; don't put ice on the bite site (or soak in ice); don't try to neutralize the venom by hooking your jumper cables to the car battery and shocking the bite site; don't have a friend try to suck the venom out either.  Tourniquets and ice slow circulation and pool blood and, therefore, the venom proteins at the bite site.  I've seen some nasty pictures of people missing fingers and having crazy-horrible necrosis at the bite site from tourniquets and ice.  The "jumper cable" thing is a on old wives-tale.  It does absolutely nothing to neutralize the venom and it simply shocks the piss out of you; nothing more.  Having a friend (or you) try to suck the venom out is just as useless as the Sawyer Extractor (actually more so);  if you or your friend is actually successful in getting the venom out (highly unlikely), then you will have active venom inside your mouth, which is porous and an easy inlet to your system, especially if you have bitten your lip or have an open sore/wound.  Antihistamines may help with the swelling, but it won't do anything to counteract/neutralize the venom.

[Delw]

5 hours ago, AZDirtyTaco said:

Stories like this are more of what my aim was when posting the thread. Just trying to get a handle on how much consideration I really need to give to the "what if" portion of the conversation. At this stage, I feel like our normal heavy hiking boots with gators should be decent insurance against the lowerish odds of a strike. What was most interesting to me about that story is how that dude needed to hike out on his own power and how truly detrimental that could have been for him. Add another mile to that trip and we might be reading a biography instead... Which has always been my biggest hang-up, especially before having the safety net of one of the personal emergency distress devices out there. My InReach stays in my chest rig which stays attached to me at all times in the backcountry, but I might start even start sleeping with that puppy under my pillow. 

For the sake of conversation - So what does one do if they get bit and can see/feel signs that a significant amount of venom was released while miles deep into the wilderness, in big canyon country, lots of elevation to deal with, etc. while solo and with no SPOT or InReach type of device or... maybe it is busted or dead? Basically, you're on your own and self-rescue is your only option.

and people give me shoot for shooting out my  truck window :)

 

Quote

For the sake of conversation - So what does one do if they get bit and can see/feel signs that a significant amount of venom was released while miles deep into the wilderness, in big canyon country, lots of elevation to deal with, etc. while solo and with no SPOT or InReach type of device or... maybe it is busted or dead? Basically, you're on your own and self-rescue is your only option.

curl up in the fetal position under a tree and die. ;)

 

Always wondered the same thing. now that I am older I tend to go out with others and never myself. Snakes arent the only problem, broken leg heart attack etc etc. last thing I want is to wake up with some yote chewing on me

I tend not to think about it until I see a snake. if I see a snake I am done for the year.

 

 

[Delw]

6 minutes ago, IA Born said:

The best thing you can do is get to a high point and get help via cell or SPOT/InReach, etc.  Barring that option, the next best thing you can do is to stay calm (right?) and hike out as quickly as you can, while not getting your blood pumping too hard.  I say that, because you don't want an increased blood flow moving the venom around any faster than necessary.  There up to 43 different proteins in venom, ranging from hemorrhagic to necrotic to neurotoxic.  If you carry a Sawyer extractor, they are in the category of "Might help a little, but won't hurt to try".   Keep in mind that the "might" is emphasized for a reason.  I have seen the data on them and they really aren't all that they're cracked up to be.  When I have more time, I can indulge more about the success (lack thereof) rate when using those in trial studies.

I can give you the "don't do" list much easier.  Don't use a tourniquet; don't put ice on the bite site (or soak in ice); don't try to neutralize the venom by hooking your jumper cables to the car battery and shocking the bite site; don't have a friend try to suck the venom out either.  Tourniquets and ice slow circulation and pool blood and, therefore, the venom proteins at the bite site.  I've seen some nasty pictures of people missing fingers and having crazy-horrible necrosis at the bite site from tourniquets and ice.  The "jumper cable" thing is a on old wives-tale.  It does absolutely nothing to neutralize the venom and it simply shocks the piss out of you; nothing more.  Having a friend (or you) try to suck the venom out is just as useless as the Sawyer Extractor (actually more so);  if you or your friend is actually successful in getting the venom out (highly unlikely), then you will have active venom inside your mouth, which is porous and an easy inlet to your system, especially if you have bitten your lip or have an open sore/wound.  Antihistamines may help with the swelling, but it won't do anything to counteract/neutralize the venom.

wasnt there a guy about 15 or so years back here in AZ i think at Bartlett lake that got pit on his tongue playing with the snake. I thought he tried the jumper cable trick. it was on the news. He was drunk.

[AZDirtyTaco]

IA Born - you definitely have the background to speak as intelligently as anyone on the topic. I just find it an interesting conversation and I mostly spend time deep in the wilderness areas where cel phone service is not easily attainable. The InReach has been some of the best money I've ever spent and it has already saved my butt in a non-life threatening situation. I just don't like putting all my eggs in that basket and being in a spot that if I were to get bit, that thing better work or else...

Delw - you and me buddy are on the same page! I'm trying hard to change my perspective on these dang things though. But I'm one close encounter every trip from having my head completely out of sorts and preoccupied with flippin snakes!

[Non-Typical Solutions]

17 hours ago, IA Born said:

don't try to neutralize the venom by hooking your jumper cables to the car battery and shocking the bite site;

I had never heard of this wives tale and seriously can't stop laughing......one heal of a joke to play on a friend!!

Hey......you got bit by a rattler....lets hook you up to the jumper cables!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!😂

[IA Born]

12 hours ago, Non-Typical Solutions said:

I had never heard of this wives tale and seriously can't stop laughing......one heal of a joke to play on a friend!!

Hey......you got bit by a rattler....lets hook you up to the jumper cables!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!😂

I wish I could tell you it was a joke, but I've lost count how many times I've people tell me that's a legitimate treatment for rattlesnake bites.  As soon as they heard I was a venom researcher, it was "I was always told that you just hook up your jumper cables and hit the bite site to neutralize the venom!"  The scary part is that they were always dead serious.  The ones who argued with me the most are the ones I quit trying to convince.  Being a student of Darwin, I figured I'd let them weed out the gene pool themselves.  And now you have me laughing again, too!

[CatfishKev]

35 minutes ago, IA Born said:

I wish I could tell you it was a joke, but I've lost count how many times I've people tell me that's a legitimate treatment for rattlesnake bites.  As soon as they heard I was a venom researcher, it was "I was always told that you just hook up your jumper cables and hit the bite site to neutralize the venom!"  The scary part is that they were always dead serious.  The ones who argued with me the most are the ones I quit trying to convince.  Being a student of Darwin, I figured I'd let them weed out the gene pool themselves.  And now you have me laughing again, too!

I heard it years ago. The guy that told me about it got attacked by a swarm of killer bees and did exactly this and swore it worked.  He first heard about it from a reptile magazine (He was a snake owner). Since then over the years ive researched it and found a handful of videos online.  The one thing I would say is the voltage claimed to have worked from the things I have read was not the type of amperage you would get from an ignition coil on a V8.  It was more like a you could barely feel it on your bare skin kind of voltage. Like a watered down version of sticking a 9 volt battery on your tongue.  Also I read it could only be DC current and not AC.

Question for IA Born..

What type of venom do killer bees have? You mentioned several types of snake venom. Do many snakes in AZ have the same type of venom? And is it possible the dc current could work on one type of venom but not others? Just curious. This has always interested me.

Just for fun I will try and find an old video I saw where an old timer claimed to save several lives with a little hand crank generator. I think it was in South America but could have been Africa.  

[Non-Typical Solutions]

9 hours ago, CatfishKev said:

I heard it years ago. The guy that told me about it got attacked by a swarm of killer bees and did exactly this and swore it worked.  He first heard about it from a reptile magazine (He was a snake owner). Since then over the years ive researched it and found a handful of videos online.  The one thing I would say is the voltage claimed to have worked from the things I have read was not the type of amperage you would get from an ignition coil on a V8.  It was more like a you could barely feel it on your bare skin kind of voltage. Like a watered down version of sticking a 9 volt battery on your tongue.  Also I read it could only be DC current and not AC.

Question for IA Born..

What type of venom do killer bees have? You mentioned several types of snake venom. Do many snakes in AZ have the same type of venom? And is it possible the dc current could work on one type of venom but not others? Just curious. This has always interested me.

Just for fun I will try and find an old video I saw where an old timer claimed to save several lives with a little hand crank generator. I think it was in South America but could have been Africa.  

I'm waiting for the video......:)