jackshoe Report post Posted March 11, 2008 I didn't know that there were no timber rattlers in Arizona. What are the black rattlesnakes that we see in the mountains? When I lived in the seirra anchas north of roosevelt lake, we saw lots of these black rattlesnakes-they were shorter and thicker than diamondbacks, and all the old timers called them timber rattlers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coueschaser3 Report post Posted March 11, 2008 The black rattlesnakes you are seeing are, Arizona Black Rattlesnakes....go figure right.... they tend to reside at higher elevations and you will find them consistantly in the Sierra Anchas, Four peaks to Matazal range, anywhere over 4000 ft elevation...coincidentaly coues country. They tend to be smaller snakes, in my experience running about 2-3 ft for adults. as for the smaller snakes being more dangerous, there is venom consistency issue, also when a snake grows in size and age it learns not to dose something with its full capacity of venom. by doing this the snake is giving up eating for a period of time. Smaller/younger snakes tend to not have the experience of going with out food for extended periods and are more likely to push everything theyve got. Many unexpected bites are "dry" bites due to the snake being as surprised as you. But if your screwin with em dont count on it. Keep in mind many species around the state are smaller at an adult age also, sidewinders, massassuga and others. One more issue. The majority of adult rattlesnakes venom consists of a Hemotoxin which destroys musle tissue, hence time is tissue, but Mohave's have a high concentration of Neurotoxin in there venom and Southern pacifics have a unique blend of hemotoxin and neurotoxin. Key is know your snakes, dont bug them and they wont bug you. For the majority i would walk out myself keeping bittin area lower than your heart, NO TOURNIQUITES! Neurotoxin snakes, Best be hopin someones close and as far as i know there is not an antivenin. P.S. Neurotoxins shut attack and shut down your Nervous system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus Report post Posted March 12, 2008 I don't have any nice pix of an Az Black but I know someone who has some sweet pix of just about every kind of rattler... but don't know if Coosefan has any time to post 'em. Also, Amanda posted a video of an very stout Az Black-tailed that looked mad as heck and then deceided to slither past the videographer that even made me jump as I watch it. Maybe we can post that again just to show how unpredictable these things are. BTW, an Az Black and Az Black-tailed are two differnent snakes. The adult Black-tailed is much more purdy... "Hemotoxin which destroys musle tissue" actually, hemotoxins act on blood (cellular and clotting components) and myotoxins act on tissue, in particular causing necrosis of muscle tissues. Hemo=blood and myo=muscle, hemotoxins will cause secondary tissue damage because of the lack of blood flowing(no oxygen and being digested make a good aweful mess) into the envenoming site. Immature snakes still do not contain the amount of venom a five foot rattler has, so control or not, a few drops vs 1-2cc of venom is by far less dangerous. One warning though as cousechaser3 stated our state has a good number of small very dangerous rattlesnakes so size is not your friend/enemy it's the amount of venom and classes of venom injected that matter. There is one particular rattlesnake, the "Tiger Rattlesnake" that does not get that long but packs one heck of a mixture of venom, with neurotoxin being the meanest. Again..."But if your screwin with em dont count on it" all bets are off and you are looking at a cool $150,000 medical bill. Just take some nice pix and leave them alone. Aye, AZP&Y, that is some cool gadget. For the price of a descent GPS you get some peace of mind, $169.00(plus subscription) that will payout in no time. That is very cool thanx for the heads up. I forgot to add this link for some really nice pix useful in snake id : http://www.reptilesofaz.com/herp-snakes.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coueschaser3 Report post Posted March 12, 2008 Thanks for the correction. I got a few pretty nasty pics of my buddies diamond back bite from a few years ago. ill see if i can dig it up, it will give some out there enough reason not to get within striking distance....BTW, the finger no longer exists. Crotalus, whats your background on Herps? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted March 12, 2008 here is the link to the video of the blacktail......enjoy! I definitely jumped back from the camera when that snake moved my way! Turn the volume up! http://www.coueswhitetail.com/video_clips/rattlesnake_1.wmv Amanda Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted March 12, 2008 AZ Black: AZ Blacktail: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackshoe Report post Posted March 12, 2008 Thanks for all the good info. I know a couple of people who have been bitten by diamondbacks and neither of them had much tissue damage. Both got treatment within an hour or so of the bite and were fortunate not to get a big jolt of venom I guess. One guy was reaching into the cage on a generator to check the oil and the snake bit him. He says it never rattled and he thinks it was just trapped with no place to move to when he put his hand in the cage. When he realized what had happened he was going to kill the snake before seeking medical help. He went to pick up a rock and saw how much his hand had swollen in a minute or so and decided to forget about the snake and get headed for town-probably a wise move. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
COUESAZ Report post Posted March 12, 2008 Good video Amanda, but i should not have looked. now my leggs a weak and i am looking at every hiding spot thinking there is a snake in it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus Report post Posted March 13, 2008 Great pix Amanda, thanx for posting. If you look at the Black-tailed and Timber there are some similarties but the Timber has some very distinct chevron markings compared to the diamond-like patterns of the Black-Tailed. The Black, well once you see one you'll not forget it, even its immature snakes are very distinct. Great pix again, post 'em if you got 'em! Can never get enough of them snakes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coueshunter84 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 Some interesting reading for everyone, on this topic. http://www.pharmacy.arizona.edu/outreach/p...rattlesnake.php And if memory serves me correctly the only real thing (other then seek medical attention) that needs to be done is identify the snake. And I'm not sure of that anymore as they changed the antivenom they use a couple of years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckl1 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 I'm not an expert on snakes, but I would walk out. Here is my favorite snake picture. Lee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coueshunter84 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 I was wrong, you dont even need to identify the snake. Heres what we do when you call 911 down in the southern part of the state for a snake bite. http://www.saems.net/Downloads/Snakebite122007.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Packer Report post Posted March 17, 2008 Saw my first snake of the year. It was just an eastern patchnosed but it was out at 7200' elevation. Packer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wetmule Report post Posted March 17, 2008 ooops! sorry I thought this thread was about the Wildcats and how they slithered sideways and backwards into the tournament, my bad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus Report post Posted March 18, 2008 HA!!!!!!! Sweet wetmule, I was thinking the same thing. I'm not a Cat hater but that was a bread crumb if you ask me. Aye, Lee that is one sweet Mojave and that thing looks pissed! What's the story on this pix? It is one of the best ones I've seen in while. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
