Lions or hunters.

[COUESAZ]

I knew the topic would draw some intrest. I hope I do not step on any toes or make anyone to mad at me. I saw 10 bucks taken out of a small area this weekend. We took to three points. I saw one other buck that was a three point hanging in a tree at a camp. the rest that were hanging had only spikes.

 

This is the fight that I could start. I think that people need to let the bucks grow into at least a two pointer before they shoot it. I came across one guy with a spike boned and packed in his pack he said it was over a 6 mile hike out. I think way to much work to kill a spike.

 

I have seen a great fawn crop this year and hope some of those young bucks are replaced. I do know it is all a matter of choice for each to make. I am not preaching but want to make the point that I fill we are hurting our deer population by killing the young spike bucks.

[MattMan]

Interesting point of view... when he was alive, my grandfather would shoot a small buck or bull and pass on the trophy. He said you need to leave seed there for next year, and you can't eat the antlers anyway... one big buck or bull can make lots of spikes. Of course he was raised during the depression, actually hunted for the meat, and had a little different perspective than the average hunter of today.

 

Would you rather see a person harvest a spike, that will be a 2 point or small 3 next year... or a decent 3 1/2 year old that if left alone has the potential to be a friggin toad in a couple years? I'm not sure of the answer.

 

I do think that certain hunting parties over harvest small areas, with coues, but even more so with carp. How many times have you seen a group of hunters just completely decimate a bachelor group of 2-4 bucks? It would be interesting to actually know how much of an effect that has on the overall health of the herd.

 

BTW, I plan to do my part to help control the lion population, if given the chance. I've seen a herd of carp killed down from eight deer to zero in a period of a few months by a female with two kittens.

[.270]

the way i look at it, i ain't gonna judge anyone for filling a tag with a legal buck. do i wanna shoot a spike? no. won't do it. but that's me. what i like to see is folks hunting. get out there and enjoy the wilderness. take your kids. tromp all over what the maker made us and if a spike will fullfill ya, shoot him. then pack him home, take good care of his carcass and every time you partake of a fryin' pan of his meat, remember the good time you had taking him and be thankfull for the opportunity. we're all hunters, to different degrees. some are diehard trophy shooters. some just like to get out a few weekends a year and are tickled with about any buck. i'm somewhere in between. next time ya see someone with a spike, especially a kid, tell him good job and squeeze his shoulder and tell him to keep it up. i know it's a pain to deal with all the hunters, but we need em. the more the better. i think there are plenty of little bucks that escape their first season and become big bucks. and the ones that don't probly made someones day. Lark.

[Redman]

Sometimes, you need to put yourself in the other guys boots. My fahter in law is on his last leg, this could have been his last deer hunt. He would have loved to shoot the spike my nephew shot on Friday (which was his first deer).

 

I know guys who are not good hunters, never was shown as a kid, have not developed hunting skills and have not killed a buck in 3+ years of trying. They would be gitty to shoot a spike.

 

We shouldn't put too much on the kill, but when you have never killed or may never kill again, its not as simple as it sounds.

 

What is legal is legal. Personally, I would not mind if the law was changed to a fork horn on one side, but the law is what it is spikes are legal.

 

Redman

[jimhdawson]

I grew up in eastern washington and hunted mulies in the Blue Mt and Snake River country. It is open country wheat fields and canyons. In the late 80's g&f put a 3 point or better restriction on deer hunting. Not too many people were happy about that but in a couple years we started seeing way more bucks. I think the restriction is still on. I know for myself I didn't like it at first but now it is great to hunt there and see lots of bucks and not just does. At the same time in the same area g&f has a spike only restriction on elk hunting with limited branch antler permits. I never did understand why we could only shoot the little ones of 1 species and the big 1 of another species. I don't know how restrictions work with coues but I know it;s funner to hunt when you can see bucks and not does only. Jim

[WHT_MTNMAN]

Interesting topic, last oct I had a colorado deer tag, and backpacked in for the first four days. I told myself I would only shoot a deep forked buck over the width of his ears, I passed on a few bucks. On the fourth day we hiked out, and went on a drive to see new area. A little spike was standing 75 yards off of the road, and i bailed out and spent about 5 minutes trying to decide if I wanted that buck. The reason I even thought about it was I really wanted to eat a deer. I didn't end up shooting a deer in colorado that year and I don't feel bad about it, but I did miss the deer steaks. Thankfully I shot a Dec. WT that year and had some deer in the freezer.

 

I don't know what that has to do with anything except I love to "trophy" hunt but I love the taste of game.

[Mattule]

I don't think I understand why not shooting a spike this year will help me next year? I figure if G&F made it to where you couldn't shoot a spike this year and it saved the lives of 300 spikes we would see 300 fork horns shot next year or is this not how it would work?

[treestandman1]

Maybe they could make a rule that juniors only can shoot spikes in certain units? My first deer was a spike and it was probably the deer I was most proud of.

[Tonto]

If a animal comes from a good gene pool, they have those genes their entire life, right? Seems to me that a buck doesn't have to be a toad to pass on good horn growth genes, as long as he can service does without getting his butt kicked by ol Grandpa.

On the subject of having some type of minimum antler size, I really hate the idea. If your having to make sure a buck is at least a forky before you can shoot it, what is going on with that deer population in that area. That little buck is next year's buck, or even the year after that. Some kids first buck maybe. That is my opinion, and I respect your right to disagree.

Management that is driven by revenue (seeing more and more of) is likely to lead to poor buck to doe ratios, and to deer populations with mostly young bucks.

I think that the minimun antler size rule is a response to shoddy management.

Watch and see what happens to the hunter success rates when a hunt changes from any antlered deer to any antlered deer fork horn or better. If they don't change the number of permits issued, that success percentage goes down some, the management agency makes the same amount of money, and there is a good chance the deer population suffers.

Keep on Keepin ON!

Tonto

[treestandman1]

Hey Tonto, are you aware of what your name means in spanish? No offense intended.

[kwp]

I would like to see a no spike law because I feel that if one of those spikes were to live through one more year then it might be a little smarter and have a better chance to become a big, mature, breeding size deer and help the gene pool. It would be interesting to see what an expert (like Amanda) says about this. I have often wondered if the smaller bucks (spikes, forked horns, and even small three points) really even effect the breeding cycle at all or if 100% of the does that are bred, are bred by the big bucks.

[Tonto]

Treestandman1,

Yeah, I've heard it means stupid. It isn't my name it's where I live.

[treestandman1]

Yeah, I do a lot of hunting in the "stupid national forest". Makes you wonder where they came up with that name.

[fatfootdoc]

I have read a few articles that discuss yearling bucks with spikes vs fork horns. The thought is that the forkhorns actually tend to go on to grow bigger racks. I dont know if that is a flawed study though because if they were not studying deer that were feeding on the same land then it will be different as nutrition as well as genes determine antler size. The point is, if it is true, that we would be insuring that bucks that did not have the potential to grow large antlers would not be culled and that the bucks that do have the potential for them would be taken. If this is the case then we would end up with a skewed gene pool for smaller racks in a worst case scenario. I am not for antler restrictions and think that it does not matter how many spikes get shot, some still make it through the seasons. I pass up the smaller bucks anyway but I have a little boy chomping at the bit to bag a deer next year and if we see antlers I would like to be able to tell him to fire away regardless of if it is a spike, forkhorn or whatever. AG

[COUESAZ]

I thought it would be a good topic for discussion. The only reason it has botherd me so bad this year is I saw three good healthy men shoot three spike bucks out of one herd. They are all does in that herd now and no bucks. I even saw one of the spikes nurs on its mom while I was glassing them.

 

They will not be running with there mommy next year and a little bit harder to find.(not much harder but harder). Just a thought I hope this one keeps going and we get some more good input out of it. I have taken one spike also so I am not saying it is wrong at all. Just something I thought about at that moment.