Officially worried about our future and our herds

[wetmule]

I've been in on a long string of e-mails from extremely reputable wildlife biologists and scientists (Valerius Geist, Dr. Charles Kay and many, many more) dealing with wolf de-listing and the onslaught of lawsuits that are going to be forthcoming from the greenies on this subject.

Included in some of these e-mails are links to other websites showing what the opposition is working on and has planned for us if they get their way.

I think sportsmen and women better get their act ($#!@) together and quit our infighting pitting rifle hunters against bowhunters, salt people against non-salt people, etc. etc. These folks have some grand plans for us and our public lands and IMO, it is all EXTREMELY BAD! You get a perfect political storm for these folks-liberal left Governor, liberal left G & F comission, liberal judges - 9th Circus and possibly the most liberal President this country has ever seen and we could be in alot of trouble.

Check out thses links:

http://www.gcwolfrecovery.org

http://www.grandcanyonwildlands.org

http://www.wildlandsproject.org

http://www.rewilding.org

[wetmule]

can someone activate those links or attach them? thanks

[CouesWhitetail]

can someone activate those links or attach them? thanks

 

Done.....just needed the http:// in front of them

 

Amanda

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Okay..... that kinda nauseated me.....

 

I think those guys have a different definition of the word Conservation in thier Dictionaries than I do. Are people not aware that as long as humans inhabit the earth its ecosystems are impacted by us??? Unless we all live in a glass Bio-dome it can NEVER be like it was before we got here!!!! I think people have too much free time on thier hands to think that crap up and do studies on it!!!

 

And yes, wet mule, that STATIC scares the stuffin' right out of me!!!!!

 

That crap just ruined my day....... thanks.......

 

 

This is a great time to point out that..... I HATE GREENIES!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

Where is Tony, when you Actually need him and his loud writing????? Help us Mr. Wizard!!!!!

[DesertBull]

look at our newest commissioner. His pet project is Condor restoration. Which means no lead ammo and no humans in the Grand Canyon.

[IHunt2live]

I read an article the other day about the wyoming and how the Fish and Wildlife Service would not exept the managment plans for the wolves which partly way the delisting took a lot longer then it did. I'm not sure how the debate ended up though. Basicly Wyoming wanted to let the hunting of wolves done as a predotor species, shoot on site. The FWS said why not leave some areas as a troph hunt area and the rest of the state as shot on site.

Wyoming did not like what the wolves had done to the other game species so they didn't want the wolves. Wyoming was ready to go to court over the issue which I thought was nobel thing to do because I'm sure they thought they would be sued for the propsed management plan.

To me I think each state should be able to do what they want. They receive little to no federal money to manage their other game species so now the feds want to stick it to them by thining out their resources with these wolves.

 

I'd love to see a wolf in the wild, I'd stop and aw at the site right before I pull the trigger.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

To me I think each state should be able to do what they want. They receive little to no federal money to manage their other game species so now the feds want to stick it to them by thining out their resources with these wolves.

 

I'd love to see a wolf in the wild, I'd stop and aw at the site right before I pull the trigger.

 

 

Amen, Brother!!

[az4life]

Since the Yellowstone reintroduction from many years ago, many Unexpected problems have arisen. In WY, Montana the Greenies cite this as a victory and good example how the reintroduction works. Ssssshhhh I I'll let you guys in on a secret.... its the landowners, ranchers and hunters using the same "3 s" plan that has barely kept it to a manageable status.

 

Just think about this, If things keep up, the next species on the endagered list will be the North American hunter!

[wetmule]

Marlon I'd have to agree with you, I think their ultimate goal is that hunters go the way of the Dodo. Wolves getting de-listed is a huge blow to them, the SSS control method you speak of is far more likely to occur with them de-listed. Who is going to risk big jail time and huge fines for shooting an endangered species that is protected. They will fight this battle in the courts (their natural habitat) tooth and nail to get them back on the list - they are extremely well funded by all these greenie groups and waaayy more organized than any of us or any of our hunter conservation groups are. THIS IS WHAT THEY LIVE FOR.

If you look at these web sites, they want to create a giant Grand Canyon Ecoregion full of wolves - extending from Southern Utah and Nevada through the Strip, Grand Canyon all the way down through Williams, Flagstaff along the rim all the way to the Blue Range. According to their published material they conducted a statewide poll done by NAU that found that 81% of those polled support wolfs in Northern AZ. They are going into our schools throughout this whole area and indoctrinating our kids as to how great wolfs are and telling them how great it would be if wolfs were everywhere. They are working with the forest service and land managers to get as many of our forest service and public land roads closed. Thanks to all the quad and off roaders currently abusing their priveledges they are making great inroads into getting our public land and forest roads closed. They are chipping away at us from every angle and little by little they are making progress while the general public sits by oblivious. A green or semi- green group bought the Cane ranch on the North rim a few years ago now there is limited to no cattle on the Kaibab. Maybe I'm over-reacting in my concern for this but if you look at their history and success it's pretty hard not to be concerned. They got wolves in Jellystone & the Blue, Condors in AZ - lead banned in Calif., attempting it here and I'm sure they are not done. You get a complicit G & F with alot of these programs a G & F that refuses to deal with the predator issue and I think you have good reason to be concerned.

[SilentButDeadly]

I have a solution - we (hunters) all have to become Ninjas! Basically, ninjas are undetectable/unaccountable for any of their actions/murders - since hunting is going to be outlawed, only outlaws will be hunters, and since ninjas are outlaws, we might as well be both! However, we will all have to swear on the Ninja Code of Ethical Hunting.

 

The worst thing that can happen is that hunting is outlawed completely (after years and years of legal battles) on public land. Private reserves will then start popping up everywhere you can possibly raise game - how much more money could you make on a deer herd for desperate blood-thirsty wealthy men than on some scabby cattle in AZ? Imagine what it is like to live in Texas or Mexico - where there is NO PUBLIC LAND, and you will probably get a good picture...

 

My bet is that any struggling Land Owner with some sense will instantly see the $$ associated with illegal public hunting: Welcome to Rancho Costa Plente!

 

If you are going to return the land to a natural state you are going to have to get rid of all those pesky 'introduced rocky mountain elk' in AZ -- without any introduced elk, you are not going to be able to feed those introduced wolves - good luck catching enough white tail, mule deer, and javelina to survive my wolfy friends; oopsy the population densities of those species are not high enough for you to survive? Our bad! What, no dollars to keep artificial water sources full for the introduced elk? How did we pay for those in the first place, I forget?

 

Reality bites, if you put this into a court room, the scientists will win - game management will continue with licensed hunting - the greenies will go back to complaining as they stroll their managed trails in sandals, and the hunters will continue to watch them from their windy perches on the peaks of the wild frontier!

 

Ninja power!

[IHunt2live]

Well said Tyson

I'm trying to picture the new camo that we will be wearing as these Ninjas Hunters.

[DesertBull]

http://www.y2y.net/

 

Another scary group.

 

What is even more frightening is that a lot of hunters believe these groups are doing great things. Some even say, " I'd give up my right to hunt the y2y, to know that at least some place in the lower 48 besides Yellowstone won't be developed.. There are other places to hunt."

 

http://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-bin/dcfo...umID5&omm=0

 

 

Something tells me, if one of these groups came up with a "survey", the G&F would fall over themselves trying to implement their recommendations, unlike their response to the the ADA provided, which basically got archived in the round file.

[KGAINES]

These people are freaking nuts, I hate to wish ill will on anyone but if these whack jobs were to go extinct it would be a good thing, but I would be willing to bet they think the same thing about the entire human race. They try to sound like they are doing something so noble, but they are trying to eliminate humans because we are the sole cause of all the problems in the world, and people line up to support them because of ignorance, or because some flake like Pam Anderson says so.

[az4life]

Those groups have got their own camoflage pattern and it ain't seclusion 3d or realtree. Thier camo is cute, pretty pictures of animals and outdoor sights, and endorsements of famous people and "experts" on their websites and pamphlets. With the right pictures you could make Hillary or Janet Napoloreno even look cuddly and these whackos know it. (okay, Hillary and Janet, Cuddly... now I'm stretching the truth) But think about the poor polar bears. The real fact is these bears are only reducing in numbers in 2 smaller zones out of dozens, and they are thriving and growing in numbers everywhere else. But these whackos are furthering their agenda by showing a lone bear on an ice patch floating in the bay somewhere. They don't show the bear pictures tearing into a salmon, or ripping apart a baby seal because it makes them look "aggressive, and less like a victim".

 

Once they get you hooked with a picture or a cute wolf or cuddly mountain lion they have you hooked, now a celebrity stands up and denounces those that would hunt these cute defenseless animals, and the hook is set, then people can struggle with what they want to believe and the experts that keep pouring on slanted and skewed statistics as truth of the environment and they keep on reeling you in.

 

Whackos all of em. Don't drink their Kool aide!

[.270]

it doesnt' matter how crazy these guys are or how stupid we think they are, if outdoorsmen are gonna fight with each other and not concentrate on the real enemy, they're gonna win. i've been preachin' for years that while hunters, anglers, ranchers, loggers, farmers, sheepherders, etc. are arguing with each other about who has more right to the land, these anti's are sneakin' up with a big ol' bag o' $h!t to hit us all with while we ain't lookin' at em. anyone who uses the land needs to gang up, close quarters and fight the common enemy. not each other. differences in joint use opinions have to be either set aside or negotiated to an acceptable deal and the bad guys need whupped up on. too much pride will lose the fight. Lark.