81% of Antelope tags go to NR....

[jamaro]

Hey Everybody... If you weren't outraged about the current Draw System in NM you will be now. As many of you know there have been some A-Plus Meetings around the state. They are basically trying to get input from the public regarding Antelope hunting opportunities.

 

Anyway, 81% of all antelope tags are going to NR. You can see the math and other information on my website.

 

Visit My Website

 

IT IS CRAZY.... On the website I have a link for those that want to take the survey and a URL of an organization that will hopefully be able to help us out.

 

PLEASE PLEASE take the survey contact the NM Wildlife Fed. We have a small window of time that we need to take advantage of.

 

Jason

www.thenewmexicosportsman.com

[Red Rabbit]

Jason,

The way I would interpret it is that 60% of the tags go to LO to be sold and not in the draw. If 99% of these go to NR, it would be due to demand by NR over R, and the NR's willingness to pay more for that tag, and outfitters selling the LO tags.

 

The 22% of the remaining 40% go to NR in the draw (or 9% of the total number of permits). 78% of the remaining 40% go to Residents in the draw (or 31% of the total)

 

Doug~RR

 

From your website:

Residents from NM need to take the survey and voice there opinions, the number of tags that go to NR is just crazy(81%). The numbers that I am using were given to me during the recent meeting. 60% of all tags given are for private land owners and the Department of Game and Fish estimates that 99% of those tags go to NR. At first look I figured, 60% isn't that bad, the private landowners probably do have more antelope on there properties because they have the water and they are being rewarded for keeping the herds healthy. The problem is that NR also get there 22% from the public pool. So lets do a little number crunching. Lets say there are 100 tags for an area for both private and public hunters. Right off the top NR get there 22%, so that is 22 tags. Now lets factor in the 60% of tags that go to the private land owners. That is 60 tags and 99% of those go to NR. So from the private pool the NR are getting 59 tags. Doing the math; 22(public draw) + 59(private land) = 81. That means NR are getting 81% of ALL Antelope tags. That is a real sack of beans. Maybe I should have done the math earlier.

[vizsla-dog]

Hey Jason I think your math is off just a little. 100 tags private and public with 60 private 59 to NR 40 tags in the draw 9 go NR = 68 % NR. Still to high of a percentage. I'm a Nr of NM and have not been able to get a tag there in years.

 

V-Dog

[jamaro]

sorry it is 68% but that is still WAY TOO HIGH...

 

j

[Outdoor Writer]

sorry it is 68% but that is still WAY TOO HIGH...

 

j

 

Residents can bring that percentage down a bunch by merely buying the LO tags for the going price. -TONY

[SunDevil]

Jason - along Doug's lines - you really have to throw the LO tags out. those are left to the free market to determine who they end up with and what price they are sold for.

 

If you chose not to throw those out, then you need to be thinking about an alternative. Would you propose and support mandating that the ranchers are only allowed to sell 22% of their LO tags to NR? What kind of financial hit would this be to the ranchers? Enough for them to say to heck with this I do not want to participate anymore? In which case, the number of tags in your scenario would go down from 100 to 40. This could possibly lead to an overpopulation of antelope, NM could then get hit with a severe winter or drought and there could be a significant die off due to starvation. Is this better than more of the tags going to NR?

 

I understand your frustration, trust me I do. Last year I questioned > 50% of the AZ Super Raffle winners being NR. Guess what, it is all supply and demand. If more NR buy raffle tickets, more NR are going to win. If NM residents are not willing to buy LO antelope tags than NR are going to.

 

good luck. don't let things like this keep you up at night.

[jamaro]

For me the bottom line is Antelope are owned by the state taxpayers NOT the LO. This is a welfare system. Everybody is always complaining about hunting becoming a rich mans sport... Well this is a prime example.

 

and yes Tony I could purchase tags... I could probably purchase more tags than the average guy but that is not the point... Once again thank you for you positive input...

 

Did you guys know because of the LO antelope system it is easier for a resident to draw a Once-in-a-Lifetime Oryx tag than an antelope tag????

 

WHAT A JOKE.

 

 

J-

[scoutm]

It is very easy to pick out one component of a system and point out its inequities. Is it fair that Non-resident get a disproportionate share of the antelope tags? Probably not. But is it fair that Non-residents have to pay 4 figures while residents only pay 3 figures for that Oryx hunt when the majority of the hunts are conducted on a federal missile ranges which are financed equally by residents of NM and residents of other states? Probably not. Is it fair for non-residents of any state to have to pay non-resident fees to hunt game on federal land? We all pay our share of taxes so why should there be non-resident fees when we’re citizens of the country that owns that land. Is it fair that the same land owners who benefit from the land owner tag system block access to public lands? Is it fair that certain states mandate non-residents use outfitters to hunt specific species?

 

I applaud your efforts to get people involved to correct an inequity but please recognize many of the inequities are created by the residents not the Non-residents and if you’re concerned about this sport becoming a “rich man’s sport” please don’t lose site of all the areas that make hunting price prohibitive for many.

[missedagain]

This is one of the factors that makes me against landowner tags, it is one thing for the state to auction off tags to the highest bidder if they are going to use the money for conservation but to allow private parties to profit off of wildlife is what is turning our sport into one that only the elite can enjoy.

[TAM]

For what it's worth I'm a non-resident, and I've drawn two antelope tags in the last three years. Anyone want to bet I'll get another this year? Anyway, the owner of the ranch we were assigned to this year told me that he is a cattle rancher and if it were up to him he'd kill, shoot, trap, remove all the antolope on his place and replace them with cattle. He feels like he's getting ripped off by the state that these state owned animals are living fat and happy on his ranch for free. Yes he gets a few bucks from selling some LO tags, but in his opinion, it's not a fair trade off.

 

I'm not sure who or what to believe in the case of NM antelope. On one hand the private LO's are raising these state owned animals on their dime. But on the other hand when you have LO tags it creates another set of problems.

 

Jason is right that the system is flawed. If you favor the hunters the LO's get screwed, and if you favor the LO's the hunters get screwed.

 

I do know that there is a good chance I'll be drawing another tag there again this year and hunting another private ranch that some people are paying a couple grand to hunt.

 

Tim

[SunDevil]

TAM - so lets see some pics of those goats!

[Outdoor Writer]

Need to keep our eye on the ball here. When someone buys a landowner tag, they are not purchasing only the game animal but are also purchasing the access to hunt that private property.

 

Plus -- and someone can correct me if this is wrong -- I believe hunters must also purchase a state permit from NM G&F even if they use a LO voucher, thus paying the "people" for the value of the 'lope just as if it was a public land license. -TONY

[jamaro]

Need to keep our eye on the ball here. When someone buys a landowner tag, they are not purchasing only the game animal but are also purchasing the access to hunt that private property.

 

Plus -- and something can correct me if this is wrong -- I believe hunters must also purchase a state permit from NM G&F even if they use a LO voucher, thus paying the "people" for the value of the 'lope just as if it was a public land license. -TONY

 

 

No... The hunter can hunt on Deeded and LEASED public property.

 

They pay for the permit and then they need to purchase a hunting license.

 

Again, to keep us focused it is not about the money it is about the opportunity.

 

J-

[Outdoor Writer]

Again, to keep us focused it is not about the money it is about the opportunity.

 

J-

 

Already covered that; the opportunity is there for anyone who wants to pay for it. No LO vouchers -- NO opportunity for anyone unless the state mandates LOs must allow hunting on their private property with a standard permit with no additional fees. The latter doesn't seem too likely. -TONY

[SilentButDeadly]

Along the line of LO tags - I was in 6C last year for archery elk. 6C is probably one of the worst units in the state (and is under applied for by ALL applications). So I put 6C as my 3rd choice and got drawn for it (even though my first 2 choices had a 90% out-of-state draw odds - also crappy units).

 

Anyway, I ran into two guys from Ohio that had bought LO tags AND paid a FEE to hunt 6C. These guys paid 1400.00 a piece for a tag that I paid 600.00 - to hunt the same public land as me! In my mind that LO is making a buck off of the STATE!

 

The days of pitying the poor land owner are OVER! Give him a tag or two for his land if the elk (or antelope) are REALLY eating his crops and hurting his family income (ha! like that happens - there are more cows in 6C than elk). Better yet, hire a ranger to run the elk off his land and keep his cows out of the trout streams.

 

prime example: http://cgi.ebay.com/BULL-ELK-HUNT-NEW-MEXI...0QQcmdZViewItem