Coues Sniper Report post Posted February 29, 2008 Remembered another one. Kenton Industries is company that will also do custom turrets for your scope (laser engrave yardage on turret): http://www.kentonindustries.com/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
az4life Report post Posted March 1, 2008 No problem. We all definitely appreciate your insight and opinion. I may or may not have been to the school but in a recent story on History or A&E a few months back, I recall the 300 Win Mag was featured prominent as they said it made a big impression when someone touched one off next to line of guys shooting 308's. One of the students stated they all liked the extra range it gave with accuracy. I did find a link the other day to a competition entry form for Ft Benning School dated 2007 Sniper Application Which stated the competitors would be using a variety of calibers up to the 300 win Mag so It could be a recent addition. No doubt there are lots of good choices for long range, and I just like the 300 for the most "standard" options and proven proficiency at the longest ranges. Now, you ask, Am I one of those guys that has been trained at the school? I like to say, I could tell you but I might have to make you forget it quickly afterwards from 1200 yards away.... Pretty sure it's Ft Benning, GA Army Sniper training. It's like a 5 week class using 308 and 300 win mag. ranges out to 1k yds and even more I believe. Custom made barrels, Actions, and ammo. Top notch stuff.... Those custom made barrels & actions are part of the M24. So incredibly custom that Remington was contracted to build the rifles using a 700 action....so custom that only thousands have been made. The ammo you are refering to is the M118LR, a 175 grain sierra match king (.308) The M24 is based off of a long action 700. The intent, we were told (as students of the school) of the LA700 was so that the army could convert the M24 to a .300 win in the future. As I have stated in an earlier post. So far I have only seen a few navy guys using .300 wins. Infact they started using their .308s in iraq because the ammo from the army was so plentiful. If sniper students are using 300 win in school....then that is new from perhaps the last 3-5 years. During the school we trainined to shoot moving targets from 300, 400, 500, & 600 Meters day and night quals. We also shot unknown distance targets, where we were required to mil a known target size and determine the distance from the target. We then fired 2 shots at that target before being assigned a new target to engage but no targets were beyond 800 Meters. Infact, the army preached that the max effective range of the .308 win using M118LR out of our M24 was 800 Meters. We spent one day shooting at 925 Meters, just for the heck of it & I can tell you it humbled the the sh!t out of all of us. If the army has started using the .300 win (and all my sorces tell me they haven't....ie buddies still in the game) perhaps they are playing with 1k. A US Army sniper is expected to make shots at 800 M 70% of the time. There were no 1K requirments. Again, I don't know where you get your info. I believe you mean well, but I don't think your advice is based off of solid experience or reliable sorces. I know that I don't have a ton of posts on this site (but I do read it often) and I don't mean to step on anyones toes, but the man that started this thread is/was looking for advice before he spends a few, hard earned, fat ones. With that in mind my 2 cents worth is that we should all use a little caution when giving advice to someone who plans to spend their dough. I will step of off the soap box and go back to lurking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertDiesel Report post Posted March 1, 2008 AZ4life... You are the man...rather than telling me your secrets & taking me out from 1200...a hint and a beating will sufice. Peace out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted March 1, 2008 No problem. We all definitely appreciate your insight and opinion. I may or may not have been to the school but in a recent story on History or A&E a few months back, I recall the 300 Win Mag was featured prominent as they said it made a big impression when someone touched one off next to line of guys shooting 308's. One of the students stated they all liked the extra range it gave with accuracy. I did find a link the other day to a competition entry form for Ft Benning School dated 2007 Sniper Application Which stated the competitors would be using a variety of calibers up to the 300 win Mag so It could be a recent addition. No doubt there are lots of good choices for long range, and I just like the 300 for the most "standard" options and proven proficiency at the longest ranges. Now, you ask, Am I one of those guys that has been trained at the school? I like to say, I could tell you but I might have to make you forget it quickly afterwards from 1200 yards away.... Pretty sure it's Ft Benning, GA Army Sniper training. It's like a 5 week class using 308 and 300 win mag. ranges out to 1k yds and even more I believe. Custom made barrels, Actions, and ammo. Top notch stuff.... Those custom made barrels & actions are part of the M24. So incredibly custom that Remington was contracted to build the rifles using a 700 action....so custom that only thousands have been made. The ammo you are refering to is the M118LR, a 175 grain sierra match king (.308) The M24 is based off of a long action 700. The intent, we were told (as students of the school) of the LA700 was so that the army could convert the M24 to a .300 win in the future. As I have stated in an earlier post. So far I have only seen a few navy guys using .300 wins. Infact they started using their .308s in iraq because the ammo from the army was so plentiful. If sniper students are using 300 win in school....then that is new from perhaps the last 3-5 years. During the school we trainined to shoot moving targets from 300, 400, 500, & 600 Meters day and night quals. We also shot unknown distance targets, where we were required to mil a known target size and determine the distance from the target. We then fired 2 shots at that target before being assigned a new target to engage but no targets were beyond 800 Meters. Infact, the army preached that the max effective range of the .308 win using M118LR out of our M24 was 800 Meters. We spent one day shooting at 925 Meters, just for the heck of it & I can tell you it humbled the the sh!t out of all of us. If the army has started using the .300 win (and all my sorces tell me they haven't....ie buddies still in the game) perhaps they are playing with 1k. A US Army sniper is expected to make shots at 800 M 70% of the time. There were no 1K requirments. Again, I don't know where you get your info. I believe you mean well, but I don't think your advice is based off of solid experience or reliable sorces. I know that I don't have a ton of posts on this site (but I do read it often) and I don't mean to step on anyones toes, but the man that started this thread is/was looking for advice before he spends a few, hard earned, fat ones. With that in mind my 2 cents worth is that we should all use a little caution when giving advice to someone who plans to spend their dough. I will step of off the soap box and go back to lurking. By that statement right there we can tell you havent been! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
az4life Report post Posted March 2, 2008 Casey Sshhhhh. You're gonna "Valerie Plame" me dude :o . Truth could be, My DEEEEEP cover black Ops training is still working .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattobertin Report post Posted March 2, 2008 Matt, There is no such thing as a best calibur for LR hunting. Infact, I would argue that calibur selection is way way down on the list of importance when it comes to LR hunting. I has so much more to do with skill of the shooter...heck military snipers have been taking targets down from extended ranges with 30-06 and 308 win for years. What is important is that you have an accurate rifle with good base/rings combo and a repeatable scope....ie when you turn the turrets up 2 moa and back down again that is exactly what the scope does. After that you need ammo that is of the highest quality...i'm talking very very little varience velocity spread. A quality rangefinder and MOST IMPORTANTLY a man capable of putting it all together. With that said, the popular caliburs for those who pursue the endeavor are 7mm stw, 7mm rum, 7 allen mag (basically a 338 lapua necked down to a .284), 300 rum, 30 allen express (338 lapua necked down to .308), 30-378 weatherby, 338 edge (also known as a 338-300rum), 338 lapua, & 338-378 weatherby. I realize you are talking about a LR deer rifle and most will tell you that a .338 is overkill for a coues deer. They are absolutely correct. But the whole point of LR hunting is putting the metal to the meat from a long, long ways away and a bullet that drops less down range and is less affected by wind drift makes it easier to do than a light bullet....ie the 338 calibur. It doesn't matter if your target is a coues deer or 8"x 8" black circle. All caliburs mentioned will kill bull elk beyond 1k if hit in the vitals and none will a butterfly if you can't hit the broad side of a barn. The list of caliburs mentioned is by no way the end all be all of caliburs....there are many many more to choose from, but I've listed the common caliburs and even some not so common. A dedicated LR rifle will have at a minimum, 26 inches of barrell and preferably 28 to 30 inches. The barrell will also be much heavier (thicker contour) than a typical rifle barrell...for the most part you wont see many light mountain rifles used for LR hunting. Scope wise, the top of line is Schmit & Bender but at $2000 plus per scope, not many can afford that luxury. Nightforce is also a tremendous quality scope. I have a lot of experience with NF scopes and I personally cant justify another $700-800 for a S&B scope over a NF scope. An excellent value is the Leupold VX-III LR scope. I went with the 6.5x20 power and it has worked out very well for me. Deer are very small targets beyond 500-600 yards and that added power on the scope really comes in handy. A custom built rifle will cost you in the ball park $3000. Scope is another $700-1400 (leupy vs NF). A good base will run about $100. The burris tacticall rings you can find for under $40 & they seem to be pretty good quality. A quality rangefinder will run about $500 or so and is a must. A kestrel wind meter is another $150. A dedicated palm pilot with ballistic software is another $400....and the list goes on and on. On the otherhand, you can find a sold Remington 700 sendero in 7mm rum or 300 rum for around $1200. Or a Weatherby accumark in 30-378 or 338-378 for around $1600 or so. Both rifles are excellent off the shelf rifles that you can shoot the heck out of and have customized later on with longer barrells and action/bedding jobs. Another viable option is watch longrangehunting.com classified adds for something that will work for you. I've seen some excellent deals for custom rifles with scope/ring/& bases for around $2000. Then there is the reloading equipment you will need to consider. I haven't even mentioned glassing yet. It only makes sence to have the highest quality optics for glassing...ie swaro 15x56 or the like. If your not capable of finding them from 1/2 - 2 miles away what do you need an LR rifle for? I wish I could tell you that LR hunting is as easy as buying the rifle/scope combo, buy a box of ammo on sale at wal-mart then point and shoot. But it's not. Your 30-06 with 180 gr pills is plenty for 400-500 yard shots, if the shooter/rifle/scope/ammo combo is capable of shooting moa. As an example, my son's tikka in 7mm-08 will shoot sub moa all day long and that rifle cost less than $400 8 years ago (new they go for about $520 now). I have no problem using that rifle for coues out to 500 or so. by the way, if my wife ever sees this post and figures what I've spent for this...."hobby" as she likes to call it, I'm a dead man. Good info man I will consider all of it. I was even thinking of just bettering my scope on my 30-06 for now just to see if it will help me shoot a hair better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trophyhunter Report post Posted March 5, 2008 What does a custom trigger job go for. Say a jewel or timney. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted March 6, 2008 The triggers are what cost ya, there I believe about 125 or so ( not sure, havent bought a trigger in a while) look on ebay. I dont know what installiation would cost ya Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues Sniper Report post Posted March 7, 2008 What does a custom trigger job go for. Say a jewel or timney. Jewell will run you about $225-250. Timney is about $150-175. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues 'n' Sheep Report post Posted March 7, 2008 What does a custom trigger job go for. Say a jewel or timney. If you find the right gunsmith it is much cheaper and just as effective to work on your stock trigger.... atleast it was on my Weatherby. I like it better than my buddy's Timney Trigger.... I have had that trigger "lightened-up" twice now and only have about half the cost of a Timney invested. Just my $.02! CnS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted March 7, 2008 What does a custom trigger job go for. Say a jewel or timney. If you find the right gunsmith it is much cheaper and just as effective to work on your stock trigger.... atleast it was on my Weatherby. I like it better than my buddy's Timney Trigger.... I have had that trigger "lightened-up" twice now and only have about half the cost of a Timney invested. Just my $.02! CnS Ginos right, I have never felt the need to replace any of my factory triggers. My 270 wsm does sport a Bold trigger. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues Sniper Report post Posted March 7, 2008 If you find the right gunsmith it is much cheaper and just as effective to work on your stock trigger.... atleast it was on my Weatherby. I like it better than my buddy's Timney Trigger.... I have had that trigger "lightened-up" twice now and only have about half the cost of a Timney invested. Just my $.02! CnS True, that would be a good place to start. If you're still not satisfied, then you could always upgrade afterwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooked_on_Coues Report post Posted March 26, 2008 I didn't read the entire thread but has anyone mentioned a 6.5x284? 140 grain bullet at 2950 outperforms a 300 winchester with a 180 past 400 yards. another interesting round is the 6.5 Grendel. Look at it compared to the venerable ole .308..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues 'n' Sheep Report post Posted March 26, 2008 I didn't read the entire thread but has anyone mentioned a 6.5x284? 140 grain bullet at 2950 outperforms a 300 winchester with a 180 past 400 yards. another interesting round is the 6.5 Grendel. Look at it compared to the venerable ole .308..... Not familiar with that round but I am going to assume that the BC on that 140 gr. will not out perform the heavier 180 gr. in a real hunting situation (wind, ect.).... Again I might be wrong, but I personally prefir the 300's because speed and thewind bucking ablity. Also, I am shooting a 300 Wby mag and a lot of guys are shooting 300 RUM's.... my 168 gr. VLD's are leaving the barrel at 3250+ fps. Very interested to learn about any "smaller" caliber that would do better though. Thanks, CnS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Rabbit Report post Posted March 26, 2008 Here's some info about the 6.5-284 http://www.6mmbr.com/SixFive284.html My 6.5 WSM can spit out the 130 VLD with a BC of .595 @3280 fps If your 168 VLD's a with a BC of .512 are at 3250fps, the 130 from the 6.5WSM will have less drop, more retained velocity and less wind drift. From the 6.5-284, the 140 gr VLD, BC= 0.640, @ 2950fps will drop more at 800 yards, but have equal velocity and less wind drift compared to the 168 VLD @ 3250fps. I have been told that those VLDs have great terminal performance on coues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
