Long range rifles?

[az4life]

Well this is another fine thread. Everyone is coveing most of the angles but I will add that whatever you finally choose, you likely will be reloading your own ammo or having someone do it for you. If you want consistent accuracy it will likely take some time to test a few loads before you settle on one and it may even be that you need a couple different loads depending on if you are inside or outside 500 yds.

 

A few thoughts though...

Military sniper school trains out past 1000 yds with 300 win mag. Lots of options for that caliber.

The proficient long range shot is a credit to the shooter, the gun, and the optics. Either one being out of sync and you miss the mark.

 

Keep it going....

[BowNut]

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/index.php

 

Here is a good forum on long range shooting.

The article on building a long range rifle on a budget is a good one.

[DesertDiesel]

Well this is another fine thread. Everyone is coveing most of the angles but I will add that whatever you finally choose, you likely will be reloading your own ammo or having someone do it for you. If you want consistent accuracy it will likely take some time to test a few loads before you settle on one and it may even be that you need a couple different loads depending on if you are inside or outside 500 yds.

 

A few thoughts though...

Military sniper school trains out past 1000 yds with 300 win mag. Lots of options for that caliber.

The proficient long range shot is a credit to the shooter, the gun, and the optics. Either one being out of sync and you miss the mark.

 

Keep it going....

What military sniper school are you refering to? I attended the army sniper school and we shot to 925m only one day. Most shooting was 600m and in with occasional shots out to 800m. As for the 300 win, I know of a few navy guys using that calibur (and a few troops using the 50bmg & .338 lapua) but for the vast majority of military snipers, the .308 win is the only option available.

 

Keep this in mind, you can have the finest hammer in the world, but it is only as good as the man swinging it. ie master the skills in shooting with what you have. Once you've mastered the skill, you will be a lot more in the know about calibur selection, then you can make the decision for yourself instead of investing a few grand in a rifle/scope based off of a strangers advise.

 

I've read in the past, comments from those who like to take potshots at LR hunters. Personally, I bow hunt and in doing so, my goal is to get as close to game as possible for the shot. When I rifle hunt, I want the ability to shoot as far as possible. That is why I practice every week at the rifle range. I'm not saying that I would move further from my target, but it's nice knowing that if the conditions are right, I can make that LR shot.

 

Matt, do you reload? If you don't I highly suggest that you start. I don't know any LR shoots that don't dedicate a lot of time in mastering the skill of reloading. Nesika action + Nightforce scope + Ken Farrell rings/base + Lilja barrel + McMillan stock = one awsome rifle....add garbage ammo and your stick is no better something you pull stock off of the shelf.

[TAM]

Well said Double D!

[mattobertin]

Well this is another fine thread. Everyone is coveing most of the angles but I will add that whatever you finally choose, you likely will be reloading your own ammo or having someone do it for you. If you want consistent accuracy it will likely take some time to test a few loads before you settle on one and it may even be that you need a couple different loads depending on if you are inside or outside 500 yds.

 

A few thoughts though...

Military sniper school trains out past 1000 yds with 300 win mag. Lots of options for that caliber.

The proficient long range shot is a credit to the shooter, the gun, and the optics. Either one being out of sync and you miss the mark.

 

Keep it going....

What military sniper school are you refering to? I attended the army sniper school and we shot to 925m only one day. Most shooting was 600m and in with occasional shots out to 800m. As for the 300 win, I know of a few navy guys using that calibur (and a few troops using the 50bmg & .338 lapua) but for the vast majority of military snipers, the .308 win is the only option available.

 

Keep this in mind, you can have the finest hammer in the world, but it is only as good as the man swinging it. ie master the skills in shooting with what you have. Once you've mastered the skill, you will be a lot more in the know about calibur selection, then you can make the decision for yourself instead of investing a few grand in a rifle/scope based off of a strangers advise.

 

I've read in the past, comments from those who like to take potshots at LR hunters. Personally, I bow hunt and in doing so, my goal is to get as close to game as possible for the shot. When I rifle hunt, I want the ability to shoot as far as possible. That is why I practice every week at the rifle range. I'm not saying that I would move further from my target, but it's nice knowing that if the conditions are right, I can make that LR shot.

 

Matt, do you reload? If you don't I highly suggest that you start. I don't know any LR shoots that don't dedicate a lot of time in mastering the skill of reloading. Nesika action + Nightforce scope + Ken Farrell rings/base + Lilja barrel + McMillan stock = one awsome rifle....add garbage ammo and your stick is no better something you pull stock off of the shelf.

No I do not reload but I figured that I definately will have to start with this new gun/hobby. Thanks for your input I appreciate it. I have been learning alot lately searching the web and talking to people so I don't just jump into something that I don't know chit about.

[KGAINES]

Old school

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/targets/bal...s/sandyhook.htm

[DesertDiesel]

Matt,

 

There is no such thing as a best calibur for LR hunting. Infact, I would argue that calibur selection is way way down on the list of importance when it comes to LR hunting. I has so much more to do with skill of the shooter...heck military snipers have been taking targets down from extended ranges with 30-06 and 308 win for years. What is important is that you have an accurate rifle with good base/rings combo and a repeatable scope....ie when you turn the turrets up 2 moa and back down again that is exactly what the scope does. After that you need ammo that is of the highest quality...i'm talking very very little varience velocity spread. A quality rangefinder and MOST IMPORTANTLY a man capable of putting it all together.

 

With that said, the popular caliburs for those who pursue the endeavor are 7mm stw, 7mm rum, 7 allen mag (basically a 338 lapua necked down to a .284), 300 rum, 30 allen express (338 lapua necked down to .308), 30-378 weatherby, 338 edge (also known as a 338-300rum), 338 lapua, & 338-378 weatherby. I realize you are talking about a LR deer rifle and most will tell you that a .338 is overkill for a coues deer. They are absolutely correct. But the whole point of LR hunting is putting the metal to the meat from a long, long ways away and a bullet that drops less down range and is less affected by wind drift makes it easier to do than a light bullet....ie the 338 calibur. It doesn't matter if your target is a coues deer or 8"x 8" black circle. All caliburs mentioned will kill bull elk beyond 1k if hit in the vitals and none will a butterfly if you can't hit the broad side of a barn. The list of caliburs mentioned is by no way the end all be all of caliburs....there are many many more to choose from, but I've listed the common caliburs and even some not so common.

 

A dedicated LR rifle will have at a minimum, 26 inches of barrell and preferably 28 to 30 inches. The barrell will also be much heavier (thicker contour) than a typical rifle barrell...for the most part you wont see many light mountain rifles used for LR hunting.

 

Scope wise, the top of line is Schmit & Bender but at $2000 plus per scope, not many can afford that luxury. Nightforce is also a tremendous quality scope. I have a lot of experience with NF scopes and I personally cant justify another $700-800 for a S&B scope over a NF scope. An excellent value is the Leupold VX-III LR scope. I went with the 6.5x20 power and it has worked out very well for me. Deer are very small targets beyond 500-600 yards and that added power on the scope really comes in handy.

 

A custom built rifle will cost you in the ball park $3000. Scope is another $700-1400 (leupy vs NF). A good base will run about $100. The burris tacticall rings you can find for under $40 & they seem to be pretty good quality. A quality rangefinder will run about $500 or so and is a must. A kestrel wind meter is another $150. A dedicated palm pilot with ballistic software is another $400....and the list goes on and on.

 

On the otherhand, you can find a sold Remington 700 sendero in 7mm rum or 300 rum for around $1200. Or a Weatherby accumark in 30-378 or 338-378 for around $1600 or so. Both rifles are excellent off the shelf rifles that you can shoot the heck out of and have customized later on with longer barrells and action/bedding jobs. Another viable option is watch longrangehunting.com classified adds for something that will work for you. I've seen some excellent deals for custom rifles with scope/ring/& bases for around $2000.

 

Then there is the reloading equipment you will need to consider. I haven't even mentioned glassing yet. It only makes sence to have the highest quality optics for glassing...ie swaro 15x56 or the like. If your not capable of finding them from 1/2 - 2 miles away what do you need an LR rifle for?

 

I wish I could tell you that LR hunting is as easy as buying the rifle/scope combo, buy a box of ammo on sale at wal-mart then point and shoot. But it's not. Your 30-06 with 180 gr pills is plenty for 400-500 yard shots, if the shooter/rifle/scope/ammo combo is capable of shooting moa. As an example, my son's tikka in 7mm-08 will shoot sub moa all day long and that rifle cost less than $400 8 years ago (new they go for about $520 now). I have no problem using that rifle for coues out to 500 or so.

 

by the way, if my wife ever sees this post and figures what I've spent for this...."hobby" as she likes to call it, I'm a dead man.

[DesertDiesel]

Matt,

I didn't think of this until after I had stepped away from the computer.

 

If your not happy with accuracy of your 30-06 and you intend to shoot factory ammo. I would highly consider getting a long action remington 700 in .308 win. For a couple of reasons:

1. Plenty of Match grade ammo availble for those who don't reload. Match grage ammo is a must for long range shooting.

2. A long action rem 700 can be rechambered down the road to a 7 STW, 7 RUM, 300 RUM, or 338 Edge and many others. I wouldn't do this until until you had so much range time with that .308 that a new barrel needed as well.

3. pleasent rifle to shoot while you master shooting skills (unlike many of the mega magnums).

4. if you can find a .308 now with a 24 or 26 inch tube heavy tube, you will have the velocity needed for coues kills to 1k.

[hawkeye]

I shoot a Rem. Sendaro 300. Ultra Mag. With a Weaver Tactical scope with Mil dot. I can shoot 10 inch. groups at 1000 yds.

One thing to consider though. Last year I shot my coues at 550 yds. accross a deep canyon only a mountain goat could cross. I shot it at last light. The only way I could find it was by putting my spotting scope on it and have my hunting buddy watch as my flash light came into veiw. I made the shot at 5:30 and I reached the deer at 9:00 pm. I didn't get back to the truck until midnight. I have done similar hunts in the past. What I am saying is, that you should use your head after taking long shots. Don't just take off after the dead animal without a plan. It can be hard to find an animal that has been shot at over 500 yds. even if they drop in their tracks.

 

Dave

[az4life]

Pretty sure it's Ft Benning, GA Army Sniper training.

It's like a 5 week class using 308 and 300 win mag. ranges out to 1k yds and even more I believe.

Custom made barrels, Actions, and ammo. Top notch stuff....

[TAM]

Just to expand on what Hawkeye was saying about being responsible after the shot. Just this past weekend I shot a javelina at only 250 yards on a fairly open hillside. The javelina dropped in his tracks and the herd stayed put and didn't run off. Since I was hunting with my 5 year old boy he couldn't spot the shot for me and when I looked with my bino's at where the javelina was standing he was gone! The javelina that was standing next to him was still there but the one I shot at was gone. I really wasn't sure what happened, if I missed or if it fell over and was conceled by a rock or bush. I really wanted to shoot one for my son's sake, and easily could have taken additional shots at the herd which was still out on the hill. I knew I couldn't shoot at another one until we checked out the spot where the first one was standing. I'm glad I didn't shoot because when my friend Greg finally showed up and went down to check it out I watched through my bino's as he walked over and picked it up! You couldn't see it from my position, but it was dead right there the entire time!

 

If you're going to be long range hunter, you have to follow up on your shots!!!

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Just to expand on what Hawkeye was saying about being responsible after the shot. Just this past weekend I shot a javelina at only 250 yards on a fairly open hillside. The javelina dropped in his tracks and the herd stayed put and didn't run off. Since I was hunting with my 5 year old boy he couldn't spot the shot for me and when I looked with my bino's at where the javelina was standing he was gone! The javelina that was standing next to him was still there but the one I shot at was gone. I really wasn't sure what happened, if I missed or if it fell over and was conceled by a rock or bush. I really wanted to shoot one for my son's sake, and easily could have taken additional shots at the herd which was still out on the hill. I knew I couldn't shoot at another one until we checked out the spot where the first one was standing. I'm glad I didn't shoot because when my friend Greg finally showed up and went down to check it out I watched through my bino's as he walked over and picked it up! You couldn't see it from my position, but it was dead right there the entire time!

 

If you're going to be long range hunter, you have to follow up on your shots!!!

 

 

Well said, Tim! There is a lot of personal ethics involved in this style of hunting, just as in All styles/types of hunting. We owe it to the animals we hunt.

 

CnS

[tjhunt2]

TAM.....well put!

 

CnS.....how's the new puppy working out. Any new pictures of her?

 

TJ

[DesertDiesel]

Pretty sure it's Ft Benning, GA Army Sniper training.

It's like a 5 week class using 308 and 300 win mag. ranges out to 1k yds and even more I believe.

Custom made barrels, Actions, and ammo. Top notch stuff....

 

Those custom made barrels & actions are part of the M24. So incredibly custom that Remington was contracted to build the rifles using a 700 action....so custom that only thousands have been made. The ammo you are refering to is the M118LR, a 175 grain sierra match king (.308) The M24 is based off of a long action 700. The intent, we were told (as students of the school) of the LA700 was so that the army could convert the M24 to a .300 win in the future. As I have stated in an earlier post. So far I have only seen a few navy guys using .300 wins. Infact they started using their .308s in iraq because the ammo from the army was so plentiful.

 

If sniper students are using 300 win in school....then that is new from perhaps the last 3-5 years. During the school we trainined to shoot moving targets from 300, 400, 500, & 600 Meters day and night quals. We also shot unknown distance targets, where we were required to mil a known target size and determine the distance from the target. We then fired 2 shots at that target before being assigned a new target to engage but no targets were beyond 800 Meters. Infact, the army preached that the max effective range of the .308 win using M118LR out of our M24 was 800 Meters. We spent one day shooting at 925 Meters, just for the heck of it & I can tell you it humbled the the sh!t out of all of us.

 

If the army has started using the .300 win (and all my sorces tell me they haven't....ie buddies still in the game) perhaps they are playing with 1k. A US Army sniper is expected to make shots at 800 M 70% of the time. There were no 1K requirments.

 

Again, I don't know where you get your info. I believe you mean well, but I don't think your advice is based off of solid experience or reliable sorces. I know that I don't have a ton of posts on this site (but I do read it often) and I don't mean to step on anyones toes, but the man that started this thread is/was looking for advice before he spends a few, hard earned, fat ones. With that in mind my 2 cents worth is that we should all use a little caution when giving advice to someone who plans to spend their dough. I will step of off the soap box and go back to lurking.

[Coues Sniper]

This is an extremely interesting thread, with some great advice by all. Diesel, stop the lurking man, you have some valuable information to share IMO.