firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted February 20, 2019 53 minutes ago, CraigK said: Ha! Definitely. He builds some amazing rifles. I’m pretty blessed to be related to him. I have a want list for rifles from him... unfortunately I just need the finances to make it happen. I was lucky, I got my rifle built in his early days. Love this rifle and he has been good to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PowellSixO Report post Posted February 20, 2019 11 hours ago, jeffro said: This has to be one of the funniest things i have read on a forum. Why is it so funny? Facts are facts. I don't make the bullets, or the ballistic calculators. I've personally tested the 300 win mag side by side with a 7mm Rem Mag. I have experience with the Berger 230 Hybrid, the Berger 195 EOL, the Hornady 180 ELDM, and the Hornady 225 ELDM (plus a lot more lighter bullets). My actual drops showed exactly what I'm claiming. The only issue I found, was that I could never safely reach 2900 fps consistently with the win mag. I could reach or exceed 2900 fps with the 7 rem mag with every bullet I tested. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the 300 win mag though, because I've read where others have reached 2900-3000 fps with their win mags and the heavies. Berger Lists the 230gr Hybrid as their highest bc bullet for the .308 family, of .717 Berger lists the 195gr EOL as their highest bc bullet for the .284 family, of .755 Hornady lists the 225 ELDM as their highest bc bullet for the .308 family, of .777 Hornady lists the 180 ELDM as their highest bc bullet for the .284 family, of .796 Nosler lists the 210 RDF as their highest bc bullet for the .308 family, of .701 Nosler lists the 180 RDF as their highest bc bullet for the .284 family, of .719 Run these through a ballistic program and see for yourself. Run both the 7 rem mag and the 300 win mag at 2900 fps @ the muzzle. Both are capable of these speeds, more or less. But both are realistic numbers. The 7mm will win in MOST cases. The only bullet that I can find that will beat the 7mm, is the 230 gr SMK with a bc of .800. I did make a mistake of saying that the 7mm would carry more energy in my first post on this subject. That is false. The 300 win mag will carry more energy. Title: Berger 230 Hybrid .308 http://bergerbullets.com/product/30-cal-230-gr-hybrid-otm-tactical/ Max Distance: 1500 Ballistics Coefficient: .717 Wind Speed: 10 Increment: 100 Muzzle Velocity: 2900 Wind Angle: 90 Zero Range: 100 Weight(grains): 230 Altitude: 0 Sight Height: 1.5 Drag Function: G1 Pressure: 29.53 Incline Angle: 0 Temperature: 59 Humidity: 78 Yards Velocity (FT/S) Elevation (MOA) Windage (MOA) Time Of Flight Energy (FT-LB) 0 2900 0 0 0.00 4294 100 2769 0 0.4 0.11 3915 200 2642 1.5 0.8 0.22 3564 300 2518 3.5 1.3 0.33 3237 400 2398 5.9 1.7 0.46 2936 500 2281 8.4 2.2 0.58 2657 600 2167 11.2 2.7 0.72 2398 700 2057 14.2 3.3 0.86 2161 800 1950 17.4 3.8 1.01 1942 900 1846 20.9 4.4 1.17 1740 1000 1746 24.7 5.1 1.34 1557 1100 1651 28.7 5.7 1.51 1392 1200 1560 33.1 6.4 1.70 1243 1300 1473 37.9 7.1 1.90 1108 1400 1393 43.1 7.9 2.11 991 1500 1318 48.8 8.7 2.33 887 Title: Berger 195 EOL 7mm http://bergerbullets.com/product/7-mm-195-gr-eol-elite-hunter/ Max Distance: 1500 Ballistics Coefficient: .755 Wind Speed: 10 Increment: 100 Muzzle Velocity: 2900 Wind Angle: 90 Zero Range: 100 Weight(grains): 195 Altitude: 0 Sight Height: 1.5 Drag Function: G1 Pressure: 29.53 Incline Angle: 0 Temperature: 59 Humidity: 78 Yards Velocity (FT/S) Elevation (MOA) Windage (MOA) Time Of Flight Energy (FT-LB) 0 2900 0 0 0.00 3641 100 2775 0 0.4 0.11 3334 200 2655 1.4 0.8 0.22 3052 300 2537 3.5 1.2 0.33 2786 400 2422 5.8 1.7 0.45 2540 500 2310 8.3 2.1 0.58 2310 600 2201 11.1 2.6 0.71 2097 700 2095 14 3.1 0.85 1900 800 1992 17.1 3.6 1.00 1718 900 1892 20.5 4.2 1.15 1550 1000 1796 24.1 4.7 1.32 1396 1100 1703 28 5.4 1.49 1256 1200 1614 32.2 6 1.67 1128 1300 1529 36.8 6.7 1.86 1012 1400 1449 41.7 7.4 2.06 909 1500 1374 47 8.1 2.27 817 Title: Hornady 225 ELD Match .308 https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/#!/ Max Distance: 1500 Ballistics Coefficient: .777 Wind Speed: 10 Increment: 100 Muzzle Velocity: 2900 Wind Angle: 90 Zero Range: 100 Weight(grains): 225 Altitude: 0 Sight Height: 1.5 Drag Function: G1 Pressure: 29.53 Incline Angle: 0 Temperature: 59 Humidity: 78 Yards Velocity (FT/S) Elevation (MOA) Windage (MOA) Time Of Flight Energy (FT-LB) 0 2900 0 0 0.00 4201 100 2779 0 0.4 0.11 3858 200 2661 1.4 0.8 0.22 3537 300 2547 3.5 1.2 0.33 3240 400 2435 5.8 1.6 0.45 2962 500 2326 8.3 2 0.58 2703 600 2220 11 2.5 0.71 2462 700 2116 13.9 3 0.85 2237 800 2015 17 3.5 0.99 2028 900 1918 20.3 4 1.15 1838 1000 1823 23.8 4.6 1.31 1660 1100 1732 27.6 5.2 1.48 1498 1200 1644 31.7 5.8 1.65 1350 1300 1560 36.2 6.4 1.84 1216 1400 1480 40.9 7.1 2.04 1094 1500 1405 46.1 7.8 2.25 986 Title: Hornady 180 ELD Match 7mm https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/#!/ Max Distance: 1500 Ballistics Coefficient: .796 Wind Speed: 10 Increment: 100 Muzzle Velocity: 2900 Wind Angle: 90 Zero Range: 100 Weight(grains): 180 Altitude: 0 Sight Height: 1.5 Drag Function: G1 Pressure: 29.53 Incline Angle: 0 Temperature: 59 Humidity: 78 Yards Velocity (FT/S) Elevation (MOA) Windage (MOA) Time Of Flight Energy (FT-LB) 0 2900 0 0 0.00 3361 100 2782 0 0.4 0.11 3093 200 2667 1.4 0.8 0.22 2842 300 2555 3.5 1.2 0.33 2609 400 2446 5.8 1.6 0.45 2391 500 2339 8.2 2 0.58 2186 600 2235 10.9 2.4 0.71 1996 700 2133 13.8 2.9 0.85 1818 800 2034 16.8 3.4 0.99 1653 900 1938 20.1 3.9 1.14 1501 1000 1845 23.6 4.4 1.30 1360 1100 1755 27.3 5 1.47 1231 1200 1669 31.4 5.6 1.64 1113 1300 1586 35.7 6.2 1.83 1005 1400 1507 40.3 6.9 2.02 908 1500 1432 45.3 7.5 2.22 819 Title: Nosler 210 RDF .308 https://www.nosler.com/rdf-bullet Max Distance: 1500 Ballistics Coefficient: .707 Wind Speed: 10 Increment: 100 Muzzle Velocity: 2900 Wind Angle: 90 Zero Range: 100 Weight(grains): 210 Altitude: 0 Sight Height: 1.5 Drag Function: G1 Pressure: 29.53 Incline Angle: 0 Temperature: 59 Humidity: 78 Yards Velocity (FT/S) Elevation (MOA) Windage (MOA) Time Of Flight Energy (FT-LB) 0 2900 0 0 0.00 3921 100 2766 0 0.4 0.11 3567 200 2636 1.5 0.9 0.22 3239 300 2510 3.5 1.3 0.33 2937 400 2387 5.9 1.8 0.46 2656 500 2268 8.5 2.3 0.59 2398 600 2152 11.3 2.8 0.72 2159 700 2039 14.3 3.4 0.86 1938 800 1930 17.6 4 1.02 1737 900 1825 21.1 4.6 1.18 1553 1000 1724 24.9 5.2 1.34 1386 1100 1627 29.1 5.9 1.52 1234 1200 1536 33.6 6.6 1.71 1100 1300 1449 38.5 7.4 1.92 979 1400 1368 43.8 8.2 2.13 872 1500 1294 49.6 9 2.35 781 Title: Nosler 185 RDF 7mm https://www.nosler.com/rdf-bullet Max Distance: 1500 Ballistics Coefficient: .719 Wind Speed: 10 Increment: 100 Muzzle Velocity: 2900 Wind Angle: 90 Zero Range: 100 Weight(grains): 180 Altitude: 0 Sight Height: 1.5 Drag Function: G1 Pressure: 29.53 Incline Angle: 0 Temperature: 59 Humidity: 78 Yards Velocity (FT/S) Elevation (MOA) Windage (MOA) Time Of Flight Energy (FT-LB) 0 2900 0 0 0.00 3361 100 2769 0 0.4 0.11 3064 200 2643 1.5 0.8 0.22 2791 300 2519 3.5 1.3 0.33 2536 400 2399 5.9 1.7 0.46 2300 500 2283 8.4 2.2 0.58 2083 600 2169 11.2 2.7 0.72 1880 700 2059 14.2 3.3 0.86 1694 800 1952 17.4 3.8 1.01 1523 900 1849 20.9 4.4 1.17 1366 1000 1749 24.6 5 1.33 1222 1100 1654 28.7 5.7 1.51 1093 1200 1563 33.1 6.4 1.70 976 1300 1476 37.9 7.1 1.90 871 1400 1396 43 7.9 2.10 779 1500 1321 48.7 8.7 2.33 697 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lancetkenyon Report post Posted February 20, 2019 What you also have to consider is remaining velocity of bullet on target. Most bullets require 1800fps minimum to open as designed. This limits actual useful yardage you can use them. And any of those bullets, at 1800fps remaining, have enough energy to take deer and elk. So, it is pretty much a wash. Also, the 7RM and .300WM are more than capable of speeding up those MVs, meaning you will stretch the yardages you can hunt to just about any reasonable distance you would hunt. You are talking 950-1050 yards for any of the above combinations. Not too many people would be taking a 1000 yard shot on deer/elk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PowellSixO Report post Posted February 20, 2019 59 minutes ago, lancetkenyon said: What you also have to consider is remaining velocity of bullet on target. Most bullets require 1800fps minimum to open as designed. This limits actual useful yardage you can use them. And any of those bullets, at 1800fps remaining, have enough energy to take deer and elk. So, it is pretty much a wash. Also, the 7RM and .300WM are more than capable of speeding up those MVs, meaning you will stretch the yardages you can hunt to just about any reasonable distance you would hunt. You are talking 950-1050 yards for any of the above combinations. Not too many people would be taking a 1000 yard shot on deer/elk. You are correct. All I was trying to point out, is that a 7 rem mag will at some point surpass the win mag in drops and wind drift. I was incorrect at the distance the 7 mag would exceed the win mag (in some cases), but not in every situation. With my personal experience, I could only run the win mag up to 2750 fps with most of the heavy bullets, and I could run the 7 mag at 2900-2950 fps. In that situation, the 7 mag did pass my win mag around the 500-600 yard area. I should have been more clear with my wording. The win mag hits harder, and carries more momentum. Truth. Both have their ups and downs. For me personally, the 7 rem mag is better. I can hunt up to 1000 yards comfortably, and I can punch steel and paper (while remaining above the speed of sound) out to 1500 yards. The 7 mag is flatter and has less wind drift (with my setup), at 1500 yards which makes my shooting more accurate (more predictable). It's also more efficient. It uses less powder, has less recoil, and costs less to reload for. For me it was the right choice. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lancetkenyon Report post Posted February 20, 2019 I am with you. I choose a 7RM over .300WM too. Now....if you compare .300RUM to 28 Nosler.....I will take my .300RUM pushing a 230 Hybrid @ 3110 over a 28 Nosler pushing a 195 @ 3160. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PowellSixO Report post Posted February 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, lancetkenyon said: I am with you. I choose a 7RM over .300WM too. Now....if you compare .300RUM to 28 Nosler.....I will take my .300RUM pushing a 230 Hybrid @ 3110 over a 28 Nosler pushing a 195 @ 3160. Yes, hands down the RUM. I've considered building either a 300 rum or a 30-378 wby mag as my next rifle. I want to start playing with ELR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lancetkenyon Report post Posted February 20, 2019 .300NM is a good choice too. Here is my .300RUM pushing 230 Hybrids. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trphyhntr Report post Posted February 20, 2019 4 hours ago, lancetkenyon said: Not too many people would be taking a 1000 yard shot on elk. you ever been to 22 for the late hunt? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PowellSixO Report post Posted February 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, lancetkenyon said: .300NM is a good choice too. Here is my .300RUM pushing 230 Hybrids. Now that's impressive!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TOBY Report post Posted February 20, 2019 Not too many should be taking that shot....or half that distance... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRDATR Report post Posted February 21, 2019 5 hours ago, trphyhntr said: you ever been to 22 for the late hunt? Adam. Post that video. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10Turkeys Report post Posted February 21, 2019 6 hours ago, TOBY said: Not too many should be taking that shot....or half that distance... Everyone wants to shoot across two time zones, if you think that everybody is up for that type of a shot, take a look at the target frames at a public range! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoltar Report post Posted March 15, 2019 On 2/20/2019 at 2:12 PM, trphyhntr said: you ever been to 22 for the late hunt? So true. It is quite dangerous to be out in some areas And very few of the shooters have a clue what they are doing. Just blasting away because they bought them selves a long range rifle And bathe TV or you tube Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
