Technology and Animal Quality

[GreyGhost85]

3 minutes ago, photofool said:

Arizona has to feed the wolves now also. Deer and Elk fill that bill.

As much as i HATE the wolf reintroduction here, they are not the reason for declining age class and population.....yet. Maybe in another 10 years though 

[firstcoueswas80]

36 minutes ago, GreyGhost85 said:

As much as i HATE the wolf reintroduction here, they are not the reason for declining age class and population.....yet. Maybe in another 10 years though 

As true as that is, they certainly dont help. 

[trphyhntr]

46 minutes ago, GreyGhost85 said:

As much as i HATE the wolf reintroduction here, they are not the reason for declining age class and population.....yet. Maybe in another 10 years though 

You hippie 

[GreyGhost85]

23 minutes ago, firstcoueswas80 said:

As true as that is, they certainly dont help. 

They don’t help BUT they are not the reason for the recent decline in age class. Wolves don’t discriminate. I have spent as much time in wolf country in anyone and have seen a bunch of them. My family owns a ranch at ground zero for wolf reintroduction and my uncle (cattle rancher) has arguably been hit harder by wolves than any individual in AZ. Mexican Gray Wolves eat far more cattle and roadkill (delivered by hippies) than wild game. The age class and population issue is also basically statewide. What percentage of the state holds wolves? 5-10%? I would LOVE to blame all of our issues on wolves but unfortunately, it would be incorrect. 

[Couzer]

28 minutes ago, GreyGhost85 said:

They don’t help BUT they are not the reason for the recent decline in age class. Wolves don’t discriminate. I have spent as much time in wolf country in anyone and have seen a bunch of them. My family owns a ranch at ground zero for wolf reintroduction and my uncle (cattle rancher) has arguably been hit harder by wolves than any individual in AZ. Mexican Gray Wolves eat far more cattle and roadkill (delivered by hippies) than wild game. The age class and population issue is also basically statewide. What percentage of the state holds wolves? 5-10%? I would LOVE to blame all of our issues on wolves but unfortunately, it would be incorrect. 

I see your point but my unit is in that 5-10% 

SSS

[ThomC]

G&F needs money to feed the conglomerate at Careless.  More tags equals more money.  Money is part of the equation when tag numbers are decided.  Biology takes a backseat.  Friday tomorrow there is a Commission meeting, the anti hunting wolf loving people will be there will you?  😱

[Northern Pintail]

1 hour ago, ThomC said:

G&F needs money to feed the conglomerate at Careless.  More tags equals more money.  Money is part of the equation when tag numbers are decided.  Biology takes a backseat.  Friday tomorrow there is a Commission meeting, the anti hunting wolf loving people will be there will you?  😱

I think you’d be surprised so see most units fit within guidelines such as buck to doe ratio and fawn to doe ratio.  If you don’t like the ratios they can be adjusted every 5 years.    Hard to argue to that tag numbers get increased because of money when guidelines are being met

[trphyhntr]

2 minutes ago, Northern Pintail said:

I think you’d be surprised so see most units fit within guidelines such as buck to doe ratio and fawn to doe ratio.  

how do they know what the ratios are? 

[CouesFanatic]

Exactly. Being in the unit is much more valuable information. How many times do you see the Fish and Game in the field? I never do. 

When a year and a half old 2 point mule deer is doing all the breeding you have an age class problem. Buck to doe ratio doesn't mean much when all the bucks die before they hit 2.5-3.5 years old. 

[452b264]

Not all that long ago tags for unit 22 late bull were around 150/200 tags now look at the tag numbers. It wasnt all that hard to find an older age class bull in that unit when the tag numbers were lower. 

[brademan76]

Maybe when quality drops to where AZ loses its luster and non-resident apps #s drop enough for G&F to notice, they'll make adjustments toward trophy quality. That's a big maybe though...

[bigsky2]

I'm a non-resident and have only been hunting Arizona for two years, so take my opinion for what its worth. Technology is playing into hunting more and more in my home state of Montana too but I would say its way behind Arizona from what I have seen. I had a Kaibab archery tag this fall and I couldn't believe the number of trail cams I saw. I spend a lot of time hiking around popular hunting areas in Montana and I have yet to see another trail camera other than my own. Talking to other hunters during my Kaibab hunt I heard several stories of people shooting bucks at 80-100 yards.

It is no secret that long range rifles and radios have killed a lot of elk and Coues deer in Arizona. When I first started hunting here I couldn't believe that its legal to use radios to guide hunters in on animals. It is illegal in most other states. Every year the distance that animals are being taken is being stretched further and further.

The truth is the decrease in quality animals is probably a result of several factors. I think AZGFD managing for more opportunity is a big part of it, but there's no denying that advances in technology aren't helping. Most people are using these devices though so they would rather point fingers at predators or increased tag numbers.

[Northern Pintail]

3 hours ago, trphyhntr said:

how do they know what the ratios are? 

Why do you think they fly surveys every year?   They get ratios from those surveys 

[tontotom]

Interesting topic for sure. It's strange that habitat hasn't been mentioned. Up to 70% of the wells in the Springerville have gone dry due to lack of surface recharge. No water no animals. 

Urban sprawl is taking a lot of habitat at the same time. We clear land for housing and then bitch when more people show up and apply for tags. Interesting-

[trphyhntr]

1 hour ago, Northern Pintail said:

Why do you think they fly surveys every year?   They get ratios from those surveys 

and thats accurate?