salt and feed no more in 2009

[KGAINES]

Last year Leonard Ordway (sp) came to an ADA meeting and mentioned this topic. He was non-commital, but it seemed like the main reason was the success that was being experienced by bow hunters in the 'rim' units. I didn't hear much about southern AZ in his comments. Seemed like 21, 22, 23, etc. were the units that they had made mention of..... I think I recall him saying something to the effect that as bow hunters evolve their tactics, and as the shear number of bow hunters continues to increase, that the dept. was concerned with the numbers of deer being killed using this type of method.

 

Amanda, do you remember that meeting? Maybe you can add some light to Leonard's comments.

 

S.

 

:-)

 

Stan that is kind of how I remember it too.

All I know is that we rarely get back what they take.

[tjhunt2]

A solid 50% of the reason for this push is an outfitter (who shall not be named ) in Southern AZ who uses Texas style feeders and ground blinds and Boasts nearly 100% success rates..... It caught the attention of the AZGF a couple of years back. Couple this with very high numbers of archery hunters in central AZ and nearly equal rifle vs. archery harvests in those units.... and the public YAPPING & posting of pictures on the web showing, "how to" or "does this work?"... We will all now act surprised that this day has arrived??? It was a team effort..... If you only new how much "Big Brother" hangs on every word we write here....

 

Rather than use the management tools that the AZGF has and generate consistant harvest percentages..... they would rather focus on how to limit success to insure more $$$$ based on "hunter opportunity". And "WE" gave them another tool to use, by highlighting a "grey area".......... And next to go will be ANY item that "might" improve your success rates... How about optics, cameras, maps, GPS's...... and everything else you have in your packs.

 

There is no surprise in this movement.... it is a done deal. They are just makin' a mess of things.... and we helped find the way to do it.

 

CnS

 

Gino, I hear where you are coming from on this one. I totally agree with ya and it just burns my butt that it has come to this. You said it right when you said WE gave them another tool to use but, Gino, where do we draw the line enjoying with others on this site the things we like & love to do. That's what we are on this disscussion forum for to share hunts, technics, breggin rights, ect. I for one am not going to let these Peta Ba$!@%$ types dictate what I want to say or share with other hunters . We have definately got to stick together on this one.

 

The AZGFD has made alot of changes lately that I totally disagree with but I will continue to support them as a whole. I truely believe they have some bad apples in the bunch that lean towards the PETA types but they better listen to us hunters and that is why we have to save our energy sticking together rather than pointing & flipping fingers at each other.

 

Gino, I always enjoy reading your opinions. Good luck on your draws this year and keep them comments and pics coming.

 

TJ

[KGAINES]

I think peta and the anti's have very little to do with this issue now, we are up against ourselves and that is far worse than fighting the anti's. Don't get me wrong here if they see an opportunity and a weak link they will pile on. There should be no problems discussing these or any other legal tactics for taking a legal animal on this or any other site, but we see infighting all the time on a lot of issues and one group always says they're right and that is the way it needs to be, when the truth is everybody hunts differently. The word ethics comes up all the time now, laws be damned, someone will say somethings unethical and then we start all over again.

 

We have rifle hunters vs archery hunters, stand hunters vs spot and stalk hunters, we have hunters that sit water vs hunters that sit salt, we have hunters that spend tons of time and money scouting vs we have hunters that spend tons of time and money setting up trail cams; the last time I checked if everyone out there is hunting and having fun who cares how they do it as long as they are doing it legally. Hunt and have fun.

[Outdoor Writer]

Don't be too concerned folks.

 

I have it from a good source that someone is now working on a camo pattern that resembles a corn feeder, and it actually makes that magical "whirring" sound the deer associate with a free meal. So once a guy gets settled in his stand or blind, all he needs to do is flip the little switch and the deer come a runnin' to get killed. -TONY

[SouthernCouesHunter]

Funny you mention that Tony, that is exactly what happened last week during my hunt in Texas. Put a little corn into a soda can and shake it every now and then and they will come running. However I don't feel that we are anywhere near that stage hear in AZ. I do feel that we have to put down more of something to help the deer throughout hard times, even if we are unable to hunt over it.

[Outdoor Writer]

Funny you mention that Tony, that is exactly what happened last week during my hunt in Texas. Put a little corn into a soda can and shake it every now and then and they will come running. However I don't feel that we are anywhere near that stage hear in AZ. I do feel that we have to put down more of something to help the deer throughout hard times, even if we are unable to hunt over it.

 

Right. Salt definitely provides some much needed nourishment. -TONY

[azpackhorse]

Funny you mention that Tony, that is exactly what happened last week during my hunt in Texas. Put a little corn into a soda can and shake it every now and then and they will come running. However I don't feel that we are anywhere near that stage hear in AZ. I do feel that we have to put down more of something to help the deer throughout hard times, even if we are unable to hunt over it.

 

Right. Salt definitely provides some much needed nourishment. -TONY

 

 

 

It makes them thirsty so you can kill them over a water hole!!

[SouthernCouesHunter]

I believe that my post was talking about corn and NOT SALT.

[Outdoor Writer]

I believe that my post was talking about corn and NOT SALT.

 

On the grand scheme of things, do you seriously think a few piles of corn has any nutritional effect on a wild, free-roaming deer herd?

 

In fact, while deer actively eat such, whole corn kernels have very little nutritional value due to the low level of protein and lack of fiber for a deer's rumen to work on. If someone really wanted to provide supplemental feeding, they would use such things as oats, alfalfa, soy beans, etc. -- items much higher in protein.

 

But hey, if spreading a lot of corn with thoughts of somehow helping deer SURVIVE, go for it. Of course, then sitting over those piles so you can then KILL them would be kinda counter-productive, no? -TONY

[DesertBull]

What I find contradictory is that they can issue 3x the amount of rifle tags in units 22 and 23 as they were 3 years ago, but sitting over a block of salt with a bow in your hand is devestating the deer herd.

 

[SouthernCouesHunter]

I totally agree Tony. Protein feeders and food plots would be a better way to improve the deer herds in Arizona but I don't know of any programs that allow hunters to help out with this type of activity. I am sure that on private ranches supplemental feeding is being done, but not on public land. Why isn't G&F looking into something like this. It would strengthen the numbers and allow for more hunters in the field to produce the almighty BUCK in G&F's pocket, but at the same time allow for a better deer herd in Arizona.

[KGAINES]

What is the difference in shooting a deer over a pile of corn, or shooting one at 800 yds, nothing in both cases it is legal in AZ and it is fine with me, if you practice enough to be able to make that shot good, if you are able to get deer to come to a pile of corn good, to each his own and hunt how you want, if the way you hunt makes you happy then do it, as long as its legal.

 

It probably won't matter much, they will take this away and then archery will be turned into draw only, so that they can keep the success ratio low and have more OPPORTUNITY. What a freaking joke!

[Outdoor Writer]

What I find contradictory is that they can issue 3x the amount of rifle tags in units 22 and 23 as they were 3 years ago, but sitting over a block of salt with a bow in your hand is devestaing the deer herd.

 

 

It's not really rocket science.

 

If you take away permits for a hunt that has 40% success on average such as Dec. WT one and move them to a hunt with only 15-17% success such as an early Oct. hunt, you can increase permits even more for the Oct hunt and still keep the total harvest for the two hunts together about the same because those permits that were moved will have less than half the success rate during the early season. So...more opportuntities for more INDIVIDUAL hunters with no detrimental effect on the deer population.

 

For discussion sake, some hypothetical figures.

 

Before the change:

 

Dec. hunt -- 500 permits, 40% success -- 200 dead deer

Oct. hunt -- 500 permits, 15% success -- 75 dead deer

 

Total harvest: 275 deer

 

After removing 450 permits from one to the other:

 

Dec. hunt -- 50 permits , 40% success -- 20 dead deer

Oct. hunt -- 950 permits, 15% -- 142 dead deer

 

Total harvest -- 162

 

Adding more opportunity for the early hunt to keep total harvest the same:

 

Dec. hunt -- 50 permits, 40% success -- 20 deer

Oct. hunt -- 1700 permits, 15% success -- 255 deer

 

Total harvest -- 275 deer

 

Any questions??? -TONY

[.270]

man, this is gonna be more fun to watch than wallace and ladmo reruns. remember one thing, the big picture. Lark.

[missedagain]

OW, I have a question, who are the 1700 hunters who want to fight 1699 other hunters in 100 degree weather to have a 15% chance at taking an immature deer?

 

Another question, who thinks that this would be enforceable when g$f guys never get out of thier truck?