salt and feed no more in 2009

[bowhunter4life]

Outlaw scopes and binos, don't allow no hunts in Dec. or Jan., make compound bows only legal in the general seasons just like the crossbow, no salt or bait, no hunting within a quarter of a mile of water, no calls at all for any game, outlaw the use of hounds, outlaw trail cameras, and since we can't allow hunting over bait we can give all private landowners a percentage of tags that they can sell to allow you to hunt on their property, if we are going to outlaw hounds for small game we might as well outlaw bird dogs because that gives others a distinct advantage over someone who just kicks the birds up as they walk, I am sure I am missing a lot of extremely stupid rules that game and fish could pass that would lower success, but would not hurt opportunity.

 

It's funny how when they go to make a law that doens't affect an individual personally they usually don't care, but when it is going to affect them they want to rally everyone to their cause. Well the way I see it, we should each support one another when it comes to taking away what we already have.

 

well said! it comes down to when do we draw the line, move our elk tags to nov, decrease our dec. rifle hunts, In the works, draws for archery deer. " the only harvest report that is mandatory,ex, bear,lion,sheep. "but they still want us to send a surrey card back." I wonder how many hunters can truley sit in a tree stand for 6-10 days dark to dark waiting for a buck to come by. then when he does, you have to outsmart his nose, hearing and sight just to be able to pull your bow back, this is after sitting in 20 degree weather for 4 days, your feet are cold hands numb,your arms are soar trying to pull a cold bow back feels like 100 pounds from not moving over the last 8 hours. oh ya you left 2.1/2 hours before dark, walk slowly to your tree stand as not to sweet. sit in the dark for an hour tell sunrise, only eating small amounts of dehighdrated food all day, arriving back to your camp an hour after day light. ...........................ok it is opening morning rifle deer nov. arrive at top of hill 10 min. before shooting light, sitting with your back to the sunrise 15 x 56 on a tripod over looking 2 miles of awesome coues country. 15 min. later spot 100" buck 500 yards across draw, no problem, extend harris bipod over 300 win, with ski 12 x 15 scope ready out to 600 yards.. whack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pour little buck 500 yards away never had a chance............ this is why this effects bowhunters. were not talking apples to apples here, everyyear it is something new. what they need is hard data of all big game to show facts of actual harvest, just my 02 cents mike

[Lance]

If you don't chase deer down from your house with your bare feet and neked body and kill them by biting them on the back of the neck then apparently you are unethical! Or maybe your ethics should be kept to yourself? Hunt within the law, the way that makes you feal good about yourself.

 

Because men were made to use tools! Plain an simple folks! Salt and feed are tools just like guns, trucks, calls, boots, camo's and your underwear!

 

The fact is that they are continually taking away and applying restrections! Whether or not this rumor is true dosen't really matter. Hunters fighting amongst theirselves over personal ethics gives them the amo they need to keep taking from us. If it is not this then it will be something else. Pritty soon there wont be anything left! We need to keep it all if we are going to end up with any hunting in the end.

 

If the G&F says we wanted more opportunity, that is because we wanted more added to what we already had! Not to take away what we had and make something stupid out of it!

 

For instance.... I don't care if you hunt varmits with asualt rifles or not. Dont vote to have that baned! Because that is just one more thing taken away from hunting that will make room for the next to be taken away. And the next might effect you directly! And whether you like it or not, that is how it works!

 

So I suggest we all stand for everything hunting that we still have, while we still have something to stand for!

 

Lance

[KB-AZ]

We each take upon our own set of personal ethics. Mine are probably different than yours, and yours the next guy, and so on and so forth. It is up to each person to decide what they stand for. I know this whole scenario with the salt and bait is still just a rumor, but I wouldn't want to see it outlawed. As it stands now, it is perfectly legal, and I have no problem with anyone who chooses to use these methods. Unfortunately, if G&F decides to ban this, we must follow the law and quit using these methods.

 

I know I will probably be taken to task for this, since no one on here knows me and the person I am going to call out is well respected around here, but something needs to be said. If this is made illegal, it needs to stop. If you continue to use these methods after the fact, you would be breaking the law. That is something I would have a problem with. To say, "I will tell you one thing, its not gonna change how I hunt...." and, "Pass all the laws they want, not gonna change me..." , is not saying much for your respect of game laws. If salt and bait is made illegal, but you continue to use it, what does that make you?

 

I hope I misunderstood your statement, but as it reads, you are saying you will knowingly break the law. How can a respected guide make a statement like that? Since you don't agree with it, you're not going to follow the law? I don't follow that logic. Once again, I hope I misunderstood your statements. I know on blogs often what you meant to say doesn't quite come across like how you had planned. I really hope that is the case here.

[KGAINES]

I think when a law is passed in a sneaky and underhanded way then the enforcement of the law will be the same, what are the prerequisites for getting a ticket. If it is simply hunting over salt then there will be a lot of innocent people getting tickets, and that in itself is not going to endear anyone to the AZGFD.

 

I read this a while back and I could see where this sort of scenario could play out.

 

One morning the husband returns after several hours of fishing and

decides to take a nap. Although not familiar with the lake, the

wife decides to take the boat out. She motors out a short

distance, anchors, and reads her book.

 

Along comes a Game Warden in his boat. He pulls up alongside the

woman and says, "Good morning, Ma'am. What are you doing?"

 

"Reading a book," she replies, (thinking, "Isn't that obvious?")

"You're in a Restricted Fishing Area," he informs her.

"I'm sorry, officer, but I'm not fishing. I'm reading."

"Yes, but you have all the equipment. For all I know you could

start at any moment. I'll have to take you in and write you up."

 

"If you do that, I'll have to charge you with sexual assault,"

says the woman.

 

"But I haven't even touched you," says the game warden.

"That's true, but you have all the equipment. For all I know you

could start at any moment."

"Have a nice day ma'am," and he left.

 

 

The law is the law and we should all respect it, but it's funny when we are driving we all know the speed limit and disrespect the heck out of it; this is apples to oranges, but we all get upset when the cop says do you know what you did wrong and at that point just as Lark says we lie or play dumb.

Until we see factual data that supports their claim about salt and baiting and the percentages we should fight this.

[wardsoutfitters]

I got with Game and Fish yeasterday and would have posted this sooner but my computer took a crap and I just got it fixed. I asked the game and fish to send me harvest data form the 2007 seasons Archery and Rifle.

Here are The Facts

 

unit Archery Rifle

1 15 17

2b 1 37

3b/3c 16 68

4a/4b 4 20

5a/5b 3 79

6a 12 74

6b 15 37

7/e/w 24 199

8 7 135

9 4 119

10 5 105

11m 10 0

12a 70 0

12ae 3 118

12aw 16 464

12b/bw 3 199

13a 7 37

15a 3 0

15b 8 0

16a 5 127

17a 2 61

17b 7 67

18b 12 123

19a 8 147

19b 8 46

20a 28 167

20b 5 61

20c 2 144

21 14 104

22 45 99

23 65 121

24a 22 87

24b 10 207

26m 4 0

27 37 239

28 1 203

29 23 202

30a 5 336

30b 6 263

31 14 342

32 19 577

33 49 691

34a 26 336

34b 3 154

35a 10 161

35b 8 198

36a 10 354

36b 10 559

36c 8 256

37a 3 7

37b 7 87

38m 7 0

39-40 2 95

41 7 140

42 14 90

42m 1 0

44a 1 159

45b 1 54

47m 1 0

 

 

 

These are numbers from game and fish I had them send me the harvest data

Keep this in mind

 

Archery hunters reported 741 kills in 2007 manditory reportation

 

Firearm hunters harvested 10,835 deer in 2007 " this is what has been reported.

 

39,517 deer survays were sent out in 2007

19,108 deer survays were returned.

20,409 deer survays were not returned

HOW CAN AZGFD SAY ARCHERS ARE KILLING TO MANY DEER

[bowhunter4life]

I got with Game and Fish yeasterday and would have posted this sooner but my computer took a crap and I just got it fixed. I asked the game and fish to send me harvest data form the 2007 seasons Archery and Rifle.

Here are The Facts

 

unit Archery Rifle

1 15 17

2b 1 37

3b/3c 16 68

4a/4b 4 20

5a/5b 3 79

6a 12 74

6b 15 37

7/e/w 24 199

8 7 135

9 4 119

10 5 105

11m 10 0

12a 70 0

12ae 3 118

12aw 16 464

12b/bw 3 199

13a 7 37

15a 3 0

15b 8 0

16a 5 127

17a 2 61

17b 7 67

18b 12 123

19a 8 147

19b 8 46

20a 28 167

20b 5 61

20c 2 144

21 14 104

22 45 99

23 65 121

24a 22 87

24b 10 207

26m 4 0

27 37 239

28 1 203

29 23 202

30a 5 336

30b 6 263

31 14 342

32 19 577

33 49 691

34a 26 336

34b 3 154

35a 10 161

35b 8 198

36a 10 354

36b 10 559

36c 8 256

37a 3 7

37b 7 87

38m 7 0

39-40 2 95

41 7 140

42 14 90

42m 1 0

44a 1 159

45b 1 54

47m 1 0

 

 

 

These are numbers from game and fish I had them send me the harvest data

Keep this in mind

 

Archery hunters reported 741 kills in 2007 manditory reportation

 

Firearm hunters harvested 10,835 deer in 2007 " this is what has been reported.

 

39,517 deer survays were sent out in 2007

19,108 deer survays were returned.

20,409 deer survays were not returned

HOW CAN AZGFD SAY ARCHERS ARE KILLING TO MANY DEER

 

 

this is very interesting.. does anybody know total # of bow tags sold, compared to rifle tags sold, I'm very supprissed with how high the success harvest rate is for rifle hunters and also archers,thanks mike

[az4life]

Hmmm..

 

This can only be part of the master plan to increase hunter opportunity and improve hunter retention. LOL

 

I gotta wonder if a guy who packs a lunch and has some salt and pepper with him would be fined. What about tossing an apple core down after you have your lunch while hunting?

 

It would not surprise me if the current baiters were able to convince AGFD that selling permits for 20.00 per species is an ethical solution. AGFD still changes the rules for everyone, but in the interest of more opportunity , you can legally use a bait pile for a price . (I think it's more opportunity for AGFD to buy new trucks, toys and commission overpriced surveys and studies from their lackies) All the opportunity they create is just going to promote poaching.

 

It has been the beginning of the end since before the time they wimped out on the NR hunt permits the writing haas been on the walls. AGFD is about the BUCK$, and I don't mean deer.

[jim]

They do not want mandatory reporting for rifle because they would then loose their argument about the true facts of rifle kill to archery kill.

[wardsoutfitters]

I really think if they had mandatiory firearms reportation they would find they are harvesting to many animals. and they would have to lower the number of permits offered.

[coueshunter84]

Pretty easy to get better info.

 

Either return the survey or the unused tag one or the other. Not completely fail safe but better then what we have. And no survey or tag you dont hunt for a while.

[KGAINES]

Return the survey penalties could be sit out a year or pay a decent fine to apply. They should be able to make the survey available online with your hunter ID and tag numbers and that would probably create a much higher compliance. Hopefully animal rights groups wouldn't purchase a hunge amount of tags OTC and then claim success on all of them.

[DesertBull]

NM does it, why can't we? G&F says it causes too much burden. Why is it too much burden for rifle hunts but not archery?

[GRONG]

I know I will probably be taken to task for this, since no one on here knows me and the person I am going to call out is well respected around here, but something needs to be said. If this is made illegal, it needs to stop. If you continue to use these methods after the fact, you would be breaking the law. That is something I would have a problem with. To say, "I will tell you one thing, its not gonna change how I hunt...." and, "Pass all the laws they want, not gonna change me..." , is not saying much for your respect of game laws. If salt and bait is made illegal, but you continue to use it, what does that make you?

 

I hope I misunderstood your statement, but as it reads, you are saying you will knowingly break the law. How can a respected guide make a statement like that? Since you don't agree with it, you're not going to follow the law? I don't follow that logic. Once again, I hope I misunderstood your statements. I know on blogs often what you meant to say doesn't quite come across like how you had planned. I really hope that is the case here.

 

KB, what you're saying does make sense, I'll be the first to admit that. However, in my own personal book of ethics, I don't feel as if my hunting over salt or water source makes me as much of a criminal as someone who uses tacticals on their scopes to be able to shoot 800 yards with ease. If those were outlawed would it be the same thing to you? Probably and I understand that. But when it boils down to the G&F not wanting us to actually kill deer while we're hunting instead of just being a hunter in the field that's experiencing the "opportunity" to hunt and be there for the experience of the hunt that is where I disagree.

 

When I said, "Pass all the laws they want, not gonna change me...", I meant when and if a law is passed just cause they want to see my chances lessen because they really don't want any deer killed it's really not based on ANY scientific study or facts at all. They don't want archers harvesting at a 20% success in any given unit. In that case I say open up all the units and that'll spread us out across the board and would probably still keep withing their harvest objective... whatever that may be.

 

I'm in no way in favor of a draw for archery deer but if it boiled down to that that'd truly and honestly make me/us decide what it is we want to hunt with. Right now we can hunt with both. If we happen to draw a fall tag I feel as if we're sort of spoiled and fortunate with being able to do that. At least I know I am. If I had to decide between the two I would have to stick with the bow. After spot and stalking the buck I did a month ago I realized that it is possible to kill a deer that way and what a cool feeling it was to accomplish something like that. Not that saying spotting a big buck and shooting him with a rifle makes you less of a hunter it's just that each of them involve their own level of "fun". I guess in a way if it all boiled down to a draw type thing I'd hope that they'd leave the baiting option open, sights on bows unlimited, any power of binoculars optional, treestands or blinds optional, fixed blade or expandible or flint broadheads allowed barefooted stalks or boots with Bear's feet over them etc etc etc also an option left up to us as hunters.

 

I could go on in my own scrambled way of expressing myself but I hope that clears the air a little. If not, I'm sorry, I'm not the outlaw I may have made myself sound like I possibly was.

[GRONG]

Steven, WOW is all I can say to those stats!!! Thanks for getting that for us all to see and you're EXACTLY right about your post from yesterday too!!! Thanks for your comments and posting!

[AzTrapper]

If they are really planning on these changes, then it is time to form a group to stop this change.

 

One of the first things to do is stop saying anything bad about any other gear used for hunting, as you will not have people who use that gear on your side, bow hunters will need all the help they can get and won't be able to stop this alone.

 

Second attack this change from a scientific point of view- Things like you are able to study the deer longer and only harvest older deer or ones with poor genetics thus improveing the deer herds. I am sure you can come up with many more reasons based on a scientic point of view.

 

Next try and get as many well known people who archey hunt to come to your aid.

 

Try and get as many of the other wildlife/hunting groups on your side to help that will increase your numbers and become a powerful voice.

 

But from what I have been reading in the past posts most of them have slammed or called for more laws on rifle hunters! Do you think you would get or have much support from them at this time? You need to think about any post you make as they never go away somewhere someone has already copied them to use at sometime.

 

I wish you all the best in stopping this rule change,

 

AzTrapper