salt and feed no more in 2009

[bowhunter4life]

Here's the response I got from Game and Fish regarding the email I sent opposing the proposed rule change...

 

 

Hello,

 

Thank you for your comment.

 

 

 

On Friday, the Department was given permission to begin the official rulemaking process.

 

 

 

The Department anticipates filing a Notice of Docket Opening and a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking with the Secretary of States office. The notices are published in the Arizona Administrative Register and, upon publication in the Register, the 30 day public comment period will begin.

 

 

 

If you like, I can add either your e-mail (for an e-mail notification) or your mailing address (for a postcard notification) to our notification list so that you will be notified of the proposed rulemaking. Then you may read the actual proposed amendments to the rule and comment on the proposed language.

 

 

 

Either way, this comment will be held for review by the Department.

 

 

 

Thank you again.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Celeste Cook

 

 

 

 

 

Celeste Cook

 

Rules and Risk Unit

 

Arizona Game and Fish Department

 

5000 W. Carefree Highway

 

Phoenix, AZ 85086

 

Phone: (623) 236-7390

 

Fax: (623) 236-7677

 

Email: CCook@azgfd.gov

 

Website: www.azgfd.gov/inside_azgfd/rulemaking_process.shtml

 

 

 

Conserve and Protect Arizona's Wildlife and Habitat for the Future.

 

Get the latest news on Game and Fish at http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/subscribe.shtml

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guys we only have 30 days to respond! start sending them e-mail's,phone calls. this is our PUBLIC Imput time before it goes to the state for approval!,

[bowhunter4life]

Good Afternoon,

 

I recently heard there was a thread on this site relating to a proposed rule change that would prohibit baiting. I am in charge of the Article III rulemaking process and would like to address a few of the issues listed in this thread. The Game and Fish Department, as part of its 5 year rule review process, is proposing an amendment to rule R12-4-303 that would prohibit baiting. As part of the rule making process, public input is not only welcome but encouraged. The Commission Meeting will open the rule making docket for Article III. Once the Commission approves this rule package it will be filed with the Secretary of State and opened to the public for a 30 day comment period. The proposed rulemaking is scheduled to return to the Commission for final approval in April of 2009. The proposed rule language is as follows:

 

R12-4-303. B.Except for the use of nutritional supplements, salt, or salt-based materials produced and manufactured for the livestock industry and placed by individuals raising livestock or the Department for the benefit of wildlife, the following uses of edible or ingestible substances to aid in taking big game are unlawful.

1.An individual shall not place edible or ingestible substances, including salt or salt based products, to attract big game for the purpose of taking big game.

2.An individual shall not take big game with the aid of edible or ingestible substances, including salt or salt based products, placed for the purpose of attracting a big game animal to a specific location.

 

This language is intended to prohibit the placement or use of any type of bait, including salt, to attract big game for hunting purposes.

 

This language does not prohibit hunting over water, the use of game calls, the use of cover scents or the time of day an individual may hunt.

 

This language is intended to reduce the number of big game animals taken with the aid of bait. Permit numbers, regardless of whether they are issued through the draw or over-the-counter, are issued based upon an anticipated harvest. If that harvest is exceeded either the permit numbers are reduced or, in this case, the method used is changed.

 

This change has been recommended as a result of an increase in the number of individuals who archery hunt using bait. Baiting is a very effective way to attract big game, particularly white-tailed deer, to a specific location. The below table shows the white-tailed deer harvest in game management unit 22 from 2001 to 2007. You will see the reported archery harvest increased until in 2006 more white-tailed deer were taken during the archery season than during the general firearms hunt.

 

GAME MANAGEMENT UNIT 22 WHITE-TAILED DEER HARVEST

 

Year Archery Harvest General Harvest Total Archery % of Total Harvest

2001 25 139 164 15%

2002 47 129 176 27%

2003 47 155 202 23%

2004 27 129 156 17%

2005 67 117 184 36%

2006 97 96 193 50%

2007 53 158 211 25%

 

This type of harvest exceeds the anticipated archery harvest and the Department, in an effort to adjust the archery harvest to pre-bait levels, is recommending a rule change prohibiting the use of baiting. There are other methods available to the Department to adjust this disproportionate harvest downward including placing more archery units into the draw or significantly shortening the season.

 

In addition to the increase in harvest attributed to the use of bait, the Department queried many states regarding baiting. Of the 12 states that have responded to date, 10 including New Mexico, Colorado, and California, prohibit baiting in one form or another. Only Utah and Kansas do not restrict baiting. One of the reasons responding states have cited as to why they prohibit baiting is to prevent the spread of diseases including Chronic Wasting Disease. Although we have not detected CWD in Arizona, the spread and transmission of wildlife diseases is in itself, enough reason to be concerned over the increase in the use of baits.

 

In addition, I noticed that you have the wrong date posted when this agenda item will be presented to the Commission. The correct date is this Friday afternoon, December 5, following the 2:00 PM Revocation Hearings.

 

Ron Day

Small Game, Predator and Furbearer Biologist

Arizona Game and Fish Department

 

 

STILL WAITING FOR RON TO RESPOND TO ALL OF OUR QUESTIONS?

[bowsniper]

Hey Ron,

 

Thanks for stopping in and posting some bogus data. Stop by again when you can't stay so long (or can't post any answers to legitimate questions).

 

Thanks again!

 

 

Mark

[TAM]

I didn't notice until just now that Ron's signature says "small game, predators, and furbearer Biologist". Doesn't sound like deer and elk are even in his realm of responsibilities. Probably just wanted to sound like a big shot by coming on here and spouting off a bunch of meaningless numbers. With a title like that I highly doubt he has the credentials to respond. Besides his boss probably found out about it and told him to shut his pipe or the commission won't be able to sneak this one in the back door.

 

I'm thinking this one's a done deal. Just like the opportunity versus quality thing. The commission has there mind made up and isn't concerned what the hunters think. They refuse to use good data, they refuse to use equal data, and they refuse to listen to what hunters really want.

 

[bowhunter4life]

 

 

I'm thinking this one's a done deal. Just like the opportunity versus quality thing. The commission has there mind made up and isn't concerned what the hunters think. They refuse to use good data, they refuse to use equal data, and they refuse to listen to what hunters really want.

 

 

yes we still have our right to respond! when it goes to be signed as a bill. they must look at the public imput, send them letters!

[bowsniper]

I'm thinking this one's a done deal. Just like the opportunity versus quality thing. The commission has there mind made up and isn't concerned what the hunters think. They refuse to use good data, they refuse to use equal data, and they refuse to listen to what hunters really want.

 

 

Usually I would agree with that, but I really believe that if enough of us complain, they won't be able to sleeze this through like they usually do. Don't give up! We can beat them on this one!

 

Mark

[IHunt2live]

I have to add that I've talk to some G&F guys and they would probably be more involved in this site if we weren't some harsh sometimes. But I must also say that though its great Ron posted some of the justification on here but honestly I am a little disapointed like many of you that he has not responded. I do understand that the G&F right now is in a crunch for man power, with the state hire freeze (thought they get no tax dollars, Thanks you Nappy), and many of these guys are just spread to thin and may not have the time to post BUT don't jump into the pool if you don't want to get wet.

 

STOP THE BAN!!!

[bowhunter4life]

I have to add that I've talk to some G&F guys and they would probably be more involved in this site if we weren't some harsh sometimes. But I must also say that though its great Ron posted some of the justification on here but honestly I am a little disapointed like many of you that he has not responded. I do understand that the G&F right now is in a crunch for man power, with the state hire freeze (thought they get no tax dollars, Thanks you Nappy), and many of these guys are just spread to thin and may not have the time to post BUT don't jump into the pool if you don't want to get wet.

 

STOP THE BAN!!!

 

 

ok, I give my word! no harsh statements, we are just looking for ansers. azgfd changes the law but gives no factual ansers why?

[CouesWhitetail]

Guys, if you were AGFD would you come here and take the abuse routinely doled out here? Really guys, if you want AGFD to come here, it might work better if you weren't so abusive. Attacking someone for not coming here to answer questions isn't likely to get them to come here and have a conversation with you.

 

I would think all of you would realize the amount of time it would take to answer all the questions in just this thread alone. I can't imagine an AGFD employee having enough "extra" time to answer all the questions. Hopefully we can get some answers, but please guys, if you want AGFD to come here, try and make it a more welcoming environment...even if you can't stand the policies being considered.

 

Also, I suggest you submit your questions in writing to the dept as well as posting in the forum. I think they actually do have to address public comments received officially.

 

Amanda

 

[Mr. Jonathan]

On that note, a little thankfulness could go a long, long way. Try living in a state like Nevada. I don't think a lot of people on here realize how good they have it in Arizona. Yeah things are changing for you, but you should be blown away at the fact that you can actually go and buy a tag over the counter and then hunt the majority of the state, and during the rut at that! In Nevada, you can actually go a year or two without being drawn even for archery. And good luck getting a rut archery tag! Plus, if you were to show up looking to buy salt for hunting over you'd get laughed out of town, right until someone tipped the authorities about it. Whining and libelous statements on a discussion forum aren't going to do much for anyone except make us all look like a bunch of rednecks. There are more effective and responsible ways to make your voice heard.

[IHunt2live]

Thanks for that amanda, you are right. They don't have to come on here at all. I know some that would love to contribute but just don't have the time. Many of us will complain about this here and do little more about it because here its easy but we have the opertunity to go to the meeting, which will mean more. Plug for the public meetings .

Mr. Jonathan is right also, we don't have it all that bad like some other states. Maybe we should all just take a min. and think how luck we have it that we have these resources and in this country/state we have the opertunity to use them. We are lucky living here in the states. Beleive it or not but I beleive that the majority of the department are a great bunch of men and women who, not only enjoy the outdoors like us, but have given their professional careers for a LOW paying job, why because thats what the enjoy, are passionate about, and have the goal of using our resources today while making sure we will have them tomarrow. I hope to work for the department in the future for those same reasons. Sure there are things that we may not agree with but thats whats going to happen when the public, not just hunters, own the resources.

some more of my $.02

[bowhunter4life]

[

 

I would think all of you would realize the amount of time it would take to answer all the questions in just this thread alone. I can't imagine an AGFD employee having enough "extra" time to answer all the questions. Hopefully we can get some answers, but please guys, if you want AGFD to come here, try and make it a more welcoming environment...even if you can't stand the policies being considered.

 

Also, I suggest you submit your questions in writing to the dept as well as posting in the forum. I think they actually do have to address public comments received officially.

 

Amanda

 

 

Yes you are right Amamda! I am also a goverment employee. our first obligation is to typically respect the public and to lead the public into getting the right answer to there questions since most tax payers or the public are " paying us to serve them." Also when I went through the hunter saftey course with my son, the g-f officer there stated 1/2 of there duty's is advising the public, " going to schools, ansering phone calls and replying to letters. As a FWI at the G-F meeting in Casa Grand on Friday. Not one game and fish person responded to us when we asked allot of these same questions, I also know over 100 people that have sent letters but only to have a response stating it is under the review process. The only words after Randy spoke on friday was thank you, next!

 

It just seem every year we keep loosing more and more quality hunting, ways of hunting. we lost trapping and 3 months of lion hunting due to " giving in to peta, many rifle dec. tags, trying to take away our sept. bull tags moving them to nov. and now they are taking away a major type of hunting from hunters. we would be more willing to understand if they would simply give us the facts and be upfront about it, like letting this out a week before the meeting last week. It is hard to understand, when I had a face to face talk with the big game chief a few months earlier and he told me baiting,salt was not a problem. If you look at this years success for archery it is at it's lowest in many years and we have also lost many december hunts. so does this mean we get them back plus does our draw units go back to over the counter? For Me I'm just looking for truthful answers. If any g-f person I made you feel unwelcome to reply. I'm sorry! just looking for truthful facts,

thank you again Amanda! I hope they will come on and explain to us. so we all can understand.

mike

[bowsniper]

Guys, if you were AGFD would you come here and take the abuse routinely doled out here? Really guys, if you want AGFD to come here, it might work better if you weren't so abusive. Attacking someone for not coming here to answer questions isn't likely to get them to come here and have a conversation with you.

 

Amanda

 

 

You are right Amanda, we (I) have been harsh on G&F on this forum. I'm not saying that it is right, but I know for me it is an expression of frustration from what I feel is a lack of G&F willing to give even minor consideration to what hunters have to say. I keep thinking about a commission meeting last year when almost 100 hunters, mostly from Phoenix, traveled to Flagstaff give their input on a tag issue. Instead of listening to hunter comments, one commissioner whined, "I'm tired and I want to go home." Then there was the commission meeting where Dick King (the most diplomatic and polite person I know) was told by a commissioner to "sit down and shut up!" Episodes like these may not justify our harsh words to G&F employees, but it sure can explain our frustration with the agency.

 

Mark

[Traveler]

1- I would like the department to look at the # of Swarovski binoculars owned by hunters in AZ. We should ban all foreign made optics as this has been a well documented method that has dramatically increased over the last ten years. Also tripods, monopods, butt pads or any other device to encourage glassing should also be banned. This encourages lazy obese hunters to harvest superior deer to those hunters using more traditional "sportsman like" methods.

 

 

2- There was a 1200 member rifle hunter army in 22 this October. This huge amount of hunter pressure has not been seen in any recent time or ever, yet there is no mandatory reporting to see the impact of such a dramatic change in hunter numbers. Where is the science in that? There is no science in that, there is a revenue model though!!!

 

 

[Dick]

Mark posted:

 

Then there was the commission meeting where Dick King (the most diplomatic and polite person I know) was told by a commissioner to "sit down and shut up!"

 

It wasn't quite that bad Mark, Amanda had posted the video of that Game and Fish meeting, not sure that it is still available. But, I asked to have permission to respond to something that had been said and I was told "NO". But I had already had well over my allotted 3 minutes of time at the podium. Not trying to defend anyone, just want to keep the facts straight.