lets talk effective distance for caliber/bullet weight

[Couzer]

Good explanation Lance, finally someone talking about the kinetic energy needed. If you don’t have enough at that range you are shooting then it would not be a effective shot IMO. Unless it’s a coyote!!! Ha ha. That’s if the person pulling the trigger can even make a effect shot with the energy needed. 

On my 7mm wsm 180 grn bullet has 1350 lbs of energy at 1000 yards and 850 lbs of energy at 1500 yards. I consider it a 800 yard gun because I’m still in testing mode to make the 1000 yard shot. 

Remember even though I practice last years buck 2017 was a 15 yard shot. Spotted him at 450 yards.

2015 buck was 85 yards

2014 buck was at 95 yards

2012 was 125 yards

2011 was 550 yards

[cjl2010]

Get a huskemaw if you boys wanna shoot far.

[Couzer]

Just now, cjl2010 said:

Get a huskemaw if you boys wanna shoot far.

Not the kahles??? 😊

[cjl2010]

Just now, Vowell said:

Not the kahles??? 😊

Kahles if you wanna shoot really far 

[Jnj13]

53 minutes ago, lancetkenyon said:

You have it backwards. 

Thx Lance.  Good info!  I used his ballistics 2629 .789 300 and my 6.5 CM round still is flatter out to 1100 but not faster.  Appreciate the education. 

[recurveman]

The answer is it depends.   Personally I look at the charts and see where the energy hits 1000 foot pounds.    If it drops below 1000 foot pounds then I think that load should not be shot at deer sized critters.    I would think in terms of 1500 foot pounds if you are shooting animals bigger than deer.   These are just guidelines but they are what I use for hunting.  

[recurveman]

The answer is it depends.   Personally I look at the charts and see where the energy hits 1000 foot pounds.    If it drops below 1000 foot pounds then I think that load should not be shot at deer sized critters.    I would think in terms of 1500 foot pounds if you are shooting animals bigger than deer.   These are just guidelines but they are what I use for hunting.  

[HuntHarder]

You mean to tell me the Creedmoor will not kill an elk at 2 miles?

[Tac]

with the right trjectory and correct shot placement i,m sure a two mile shot and kill is possible. 😉 I,m not able to do it with  the one i own but i,m sure some one could with a stroke of luck and the hand of God assisting. 

[MMACFIVE]

On 10/1/2018 at 4:19 PM, lancetkenyon said:

I have shot a lot out past 1300 yards.  With everything from my 6.5SLR pushing a 140 HVLD @ 2850, to a 7RM pushing a 180 Hybrid @ 2996, to a .300RUM pushing a 230 Hybrid @ 3068, to a .338 Edge pushing a 300SMK @ 2820.   

My 6.5SLR is deadly accurate out to 1500 easily....on a calm day....on steel and rocks and stupid ground squirrels that inhabitnone of the areas I shoot.  But I would never shoot at anything else living other than a jackrabbit or coyote at those ranges.  That bullet/speed puts it subsonic at about 1580-1620 yards depending on conditions.  I have shot it @ 1771, but those hit not only become more erratic, but much harder to see impacts for corrections.

I think a lot of errors you are going to see over 1300 yards are wind induced.  Even a 2mph difference will change POI (from 3mph to 5mph) almost 24" difference in drift, from 23" to 47".  And that is if it is consistent.  Swirling winds will push it all over the place.  And winds change direction and speed across 3/4 mile easily.  Meaning very hard to judge all aspects of it.  Tailwinds induce less drop, headwinds induce more drop, full value winds push left or right, etc.  Plus, you still have spin drift at 1300 to account for.  And your zero better be perfect L-R.  And your ballistic inputs.  And your velocity better have single digit ES and SD.

A .338 Edge pushing a 300 Hybrid @ 2900 is going to have far less drift at 1300 yards.  That same 5mph 90° full value wind only pushes the bullet 29" vs 47" with the 6.5mm 140.  And at 3mph, only 13". So about half what the 6.5 140 drifts.  That is a huge difference.

Just because a bullet has a high BC, a lighter bullet is still going to drift more than a heavy high BC bullet.  Takes more force to move the higher mass.  Making a .338LM a much better ELR candidate than a 6.5CM.  The 6.5CM definitely ups your wind reading game though, and far cheaper to shoot for practice.  

 

 

 

Lance,

 

This is one of the few times I disagree with you. A bullets BC has the weight factored in. If an 140 gr, 6.5mm bullet and  a .338, 300 gr bullet have the same BC and are going the same velocity they will have the same wind drift at all distances. This a long living myth we need to debunk. Try putting a 1 gr bullet and a 1000 gr bullets with the same BC and same velocity into you Applied Ballistics calculator and look at the wind drift at 1500 yards and you will find the drift is the same.

 

Mike

[Dan]

1 hour ago, MMACFIVE said:

 

 

Lance,

 

This is one of the few times I disagree with you. A bullets BC has the weight factored in. If an 140 gr, 6.5mm bullet and  a .338, 300 gr bullet have the same BC and are going the same velocity they will have the same wind drift at all distances. This a long living myth we need to debunk. Try putting a 1 gr bullet and a 1000 gr bullets with the same BC and same velocity into you Applied Ballistics calculator and look at the wind drift at 1500 yards and you will find the drift is the same.

 

Mike

Show me a 140 gr. 6.5 mm that has BC of .818 as the 338  300gr. berger does  Theoretically  

 you are right. In the real world the 338 is a much better ELR round . Try finding a 1 gr bullet and a 1000gr bullet with the same BC . Just kidding. The reason I shoot a 338 is because of the high BC bullets that are available 

 

[MMACFIVE]

16 minutes ago, Dan said:

Show me a 140 gr. 6.5 mm that has BC of .818 as the 338  300gr. berger does  Theoretically  

 you are right. In the real world the 338 is a much better ELR round .

Your are absolutely correct: A big 338 is a much better ELR round than a 6.5.  That's why there are things like 375 Cheytacs, 416 Barrets, etc.  Where do you want to draw the line?

My only point is with equal BC's and equal velocities the drop and drift will be the same. Regardless of weight or caliber. That is what a BC is. 

 

[Dan]

9 minutes ago, MMACFIVE said:

Your are absolutely correct: A big 338 is a much better ELR round than a 6.5.  That's why there are things like 375 Cheytacs, 416 Barrets, etc.  Where do you want to draw the line

 

As long as you have 1800fps to open the bullet and 1500ft lbs   send it !!😁😁

[lancetkenyon]

5 hours ago, MMACFIVE said:

 

 

Lance,

 

This is one of the few times I disagree with you. A bullets BC has the weight factored in. If an 140 gr, 6.5mm bullet and  a .338, 300 gr bullet have the same BC and are going the same velocity they will have the same wind drift at all distances. This a long living myth we need to debunk. Try putting a 1 gr bullet and a 1000 gr bullets with the same BC and same velocity into you Applied Ballistics calculator and look at the wind drift at 1500 yards and you will find the drift is the same.

 

Mike

I will definitely agree with this observation.  

But a 6.5mm 140gr and a .338 300gr do NOT have the same BC.  Lighter high BC bullet (still heavy for caliber @ .600 G1) cannot match heavy high BC bullet for caliber (.818 G1).  So drift is significantly less with the .338 300gr.  You cannot make a 6.5mm bullet with a BC that will ever come close to a .338s 300gr, because of the weight factor.  They might have the exact same shape/BT/ogive, but the 140 cannot overcome the 300 due to the weight difference.  Which makes the BC higher.  Which makes less drift when pushed at comparable speeds.  

Now if you want to compare a 6.5mm 140 Hybrid (G1 BC .605) @ 2850 to a .338 275 Accubond (G1 BC .575") @ 2850, you are correct, that .338 275 AB will actually drift more than the 140.  

[MMACFIVE]

8 hours ago, lancetkenyon said:

I will definitely agree with this observation.  

But a 6.5mm 140gr and a .338 300gr do NOT have the same BC.  Lighter high BC bullet (still heavy for caliber @ .600 G1) cannot match heavy high BC bullet for caliber (.818 G1).  So drift is significantly less with the .338 300gr.  You cannot make a 6.5mm bullet with a BC that will ever come close to a .338s 300gr, because of the weight factor.  They might have the exact same shape/BT/ogive, but the 140 cannot overcome the 300 due to the weight difference.  Which makes the BC higher.  Which makes less drift when pushed at comparable speeds.  

Now if you want to compare a 6.5mm 140 Hybrid (G1 BC .605) @ 2850 to a .338 275 Accubond (G1 BC .575") @ 2850, you are correct, that .338 275 AB will actually drift more than the 140.  

 

Lance,

     Your are one of the most knowledgeable members on this form with respect to long range shooting.  Quoting you:

Just because a bullet has a high BC, a lighter bullet is still going to drift more than a heavy high BC bullet.  Takes more force to move the higher mass.  Making a .338LM a much better ELR candidate than a 6.5CM.  The 6.5CM definitely ups your wind reading game though, and far cheaper to shoot for practice.

     When I read this I inferred that you were talking about the same BC and velocity, just different bullet weight. The statement of    Takes more force to move the higher mass.   is what made me react to your comment. I know you know that the mass is calculated into the BC and its the higher BC/profile, not the mass, that makes the difference in wind drift. 

     I have repeatedly heard that a heavy bullet will drift less than a light bullet which isn't true. If the heavy bullet happens to have a higher BC then that's a different story. And if the lighter bullet has a higher BC, well then.....