6.5 WSM or 6.5 SAUM?

[MMACFIVE]

I think you just made my point for me.

 

A Barnes LRX bullet needs about 1600 fps to expand properly. This velocity represents a minimum amount of energy to work.

 

Beger bullies have historically had problems on both extremes. Too much energy and they fragment. Too little and they dont expand at all. Again its still about the energy.

 

We can talk about wether a heavier bullet from a larger caliber with more energy will be more lethal. (I think you would agree a bullet from a 338 Lapua at 2000 fps has a very different affect than a 22 cal bullet at the same velocity?)

 

I guess I agree that maybe it would be more simple to talk bullet velocity windows. Which most manufacturers list. But velocity is a component of energy and it is really the energy than initiates expansion.

[Red Rabbit]

 

Hey STOMP or anyone else shooting a 6.5 WSM...What's your overall catridge or round length in the 6.5 WSM? did you make it the same as the 270 WSM?

Thanks.

 

Ernesto C.

 

 

Ernesto,

My 130 Scirocco loads are 2.92" and 130 Accubonds are 2.87 COAL

Yours will be determined by throat and/or magazine constraints.

When i had mine chambered, I made a dummy round with the chosen bullet seated out as far as possible so it would not take up much powder space blow the neck and still fit in the magazine. I am using a Win 70 originally chambered in 300WSM

[Big or Bust]

I think you just made my point for me.

A Barnes LRX bullet needs about 1600 fps to expand properly. This velocity represents a minimum amount of energy to work.

Beger bullies have historically had problems on both extremes. Too much energy and they fragment. Too little and they dont expand at all. Again its still about the energy.

We can talk about wether a heavier bullet from a larger caliber with more energy will be more lethal. (I think you would agree a bullet from a 338 Lapua at 2000 fps has a very different affect than a 22 cal bullet at the same velocity?)

I guess I agree that maybe it would be more simple to talk bullet velocity windows. Which most manufacturers list. But velocity is a component of energy and it is really the energy than initiates expansion.

Laughing...

 

The point is equal energy produces very different results and a bullets ability to kill. Energy means crap....

 

I'll take much less "energy" with a properly constructed bullet for the velocity window 100 percent of the time for the results I wanna see....

 

And you still gotta shoot no matter what the math says....

 

Have a good year...

[MMACFIVE]

Wow. Lots of personal opinions there. A properly constructed bullet takes less energy 100% of the time? We will just have to disagree on this one.

 

And yes, if it is outside of my velocity window I will not shoot. Not even a consideration. This is very gun dependent: e.g my 6.5x55 has a very different max range than my big 7s and 30 calibers and I wont exceed it.

[Big or Bust]

We not on same wavelength...

 

Have a good one...

[AZAV8ER]

For the above two discussions a thought jumps out, well two thoughts. Differently constructed bullets require a minimum and maximum velocity window to perform well. If you have a bullet that opens up at low velocity it will need enough energy to penetrate and do the job? One thing I have noticed about long range shots is that in some terrains cover it becomes difficult to just walk over and find the exact spot your animal was at when you shot. Without a spotter to guide you in its sometimes not so simple. When you find that spot an exit wound (energy) is almost a must if you have to do any tracking.

[recurveman]

You guys are all over the place. I think the term is "hot mess". Here is the basics. To me bullet construction is the key along with penetration. I love a 300 win mag with a 180 grain nosler partition and a .243 shooting a 90 grain ballistic tip. Both are superior rounds. We have shot deer with both rounds. The performance of the 90 ballistic tip out of the .243 smokes the 300 win mag all day and twice on Sunday. That setup of the 300 is designed for deep penetration on a bigger animal. It is over kill on a WT deer in AZ. No doubt. Now if you shoot the deer in both lungs it will be just as dead but the wound of the .243 will be much bigger in my experience.

 

Now, if I was going to shoot a bull elk I would want to shoot the 300 and expect it to be a far superior setup for this situation. The wound is going to be bigger and the elk is going to experience more damage because it has a longer distance to travel with a much bigger bullet.

 

I'm also not the biggest fan of the Berger bullets. I've shot a few smaller animals (deer and yotes) with them and the results have been marginal. Did they die. Yes but a .243 with a 90 BT bullet would have done much better. Now the accuracy of the Bergers is AWESOME!!!!!! The consistency from bullet to bullet is great and probably their best feature. That being said I'm going to shoot a different bullet out of this cartridge (6.5 X 284) at smaller critters. My theory is the slippery bullet design is also slippery through the smaller animals.

 

So here is how I look at bullets and game. I want to dump as much energy as possible into the game. Shooting a WT deer with a 300 win mag and having the bullet exit the animal and dump a bunch of energy into a rock behind the animal does very little to kill the critter. Having a smaller bullet dump all of its energy into the critter will have better results. For the most part most people shoot more gun, energy, bullet than they need to get the job done. I think it works against most of them.

 

So smaller bullet that expands rapidly for smaller game and a slower expanding bullet on bigger game. Seems like common sense but I see guys all the time worry more about 1/4MOA accuracy than bullet performance on the critter. I'll give up a little accuracy to have better performance on the animal.

[Ernesto C]

Hey STOMP and Doug, Thank you very much, you guys made my day.

[STOMP442]

You guys are all over the place. I think the term is "hot mess". Here is the basics. To me bullet construction is the key along with penetration. I love a 300 win mag with a 180 grain nosler partition and a .243 shooting a 90 grain ballistic tip. Both are superior rounds. We have shot deer with both rounds. The performance of the 90 ballistic tip out of the .243 smokes the 300 win mag all day and twice on Sunday. That setup of the 300 is designed for deep penetration on a bigger animal. It is over kill on a WT deer in AZ. No doubt. Now if you shoot the deer in both lungs it will be just as dead but the wound of the .243 will be much bigger in my experience.

 

Now, if I was going to shoot a bull elk I would want to shoot the 300 and expect it to be a far superior setup for this situation. The wound is going to be bigger and the elk is going to experience more damage because it has a longer distance to travel with a much bigger bullet.

 

I'm also not the biggest fan of the Berger bullets. I've shot a few smaller animals (deer and yotes) with them and the results have been marginal. Did they die. Yes but a .243 with a 90 BT bullet would have done much better. Now the accuracy of the Bergers is AWESOME!!!!!! The consistency from bullet to bullet is great and probably their best feature. That being said I'm going to shoot a different bullet out of this cartridge (6.5 X 284) at smaller critters. My theory is the slippery bullet design is also slippery through the smaller animals.

 

So here is how I look at bullets and game. I want to dump as much energy as possible into the game. Shooting a WT deer with a 300 win mag and having the bullet exit the animal and dump a bunch of energy into a rock behind the animal does very little to kill the critter. Having a smaller bullet dump all of its energy into the critter will have better results. For the most part most people shoot more gun, energy, bullet than they need to get the job done. I think it works against most of them.

 

So smaller bullet that expands rapidly for smaller game and a slower expanding bullet on bigger game. Seems like common sense but I see guys all the time worry more about 1/4MOA accuracy than bullet performance on the critter. I'll give up a little accuracy to have better performance on the animal.

 

 

There is very little of this I disagree with but I have highlighted my favorite parts.

[Red Rabbit]

All of this talk of speed, velocity, kinetic energy, momentum, energy dumps, penetration, over-penetration, wasted energy? The real answer lies in Taylor's Knock Out factor

[Big or Bust]

Just put holes in stuff...

 

They'll die, energy be darned....

[MMACFIVE]

Ah come on. There has to be a minimum about of energy you believe in?

[MMACFIVE]

That was kind of a rhetorical question. You said poke holes them. You can do that with a 22 long rifle st 50 yds so that give us you minimum of about 100 foot-lbs. Now we just need to figure out how far you want to do that. Im assuming you want to stay super-sonic so that changes things. Its seems like you want to be able to shoot 1000 yards or more so that figures into the equation.....Im guessing you like a 6.5 caliber or larger starting at over 3000 fps.

 

What are your favorite cartridges anway?