Ohthatguy Report post Posted June 11, 2018 For the tag grab issue, they just need to end that idea altogether. If the department needs more money, just raise the price tag on quality hunts througout the state. New Mexico's draw is set up this way, and I think it would work well. I could justify paying a higher price when I draw a quality early season bull hunt, while the person who draws a late season tag would pay the current fee. True. However you're beating a dead horse. Commissioner Davis took that option off the table at the end of the meeting on Friday. The individual at the beginning also made it clear too that after all the work to get the pricing down, he doesn't want any increase. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azbugler Report post Posted June 11, 2018 For the tag grab issue, they just need to end that idea altogether. If the department needs more money, just raise the price tag on quality hunts througout the state. New Mexico's draw is set up this way, and I think it would work well. I could justify paying a higher price when I draw a quality early season bull hunt, while the person who draws a late season tag would pay the current fee. True. However you're beating a dead horse. Commissioner Davis took that option off the table at the end of the meeting on Friday. The individual at the beginning also made it clear too that after all the work to get the pricing down, he doesn't want any increase. The problem is that they cant use those monies for education about hunting. And for battling against animal rights groups. Based on the current talk (Im aware it can change). Theyd have tags available for raffle across all the species. Even have some antlerless tags included. They would also be for the regular season (not 365 like the commissioners tags). By spreading over several species and seasons, the impact on the draw would be extremely limited. Nothing has been formalized as far as I know, so I will reserve my support until we see the full package. That being said, right now I have zero problems with the proposed plan of action. I do believe we need to have money set aside to fight back for our hunting privileges . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trophyseeker Report post Posted June 11, 2018 The problem is that they cant use those monies for education about hunting. And for battling against animal rights groups. . Only the second part of the above is correct. The only limitation for the use of AGFD money is in the political arena, which the department can't get involved with in any way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost85 Report post Posted June 11, 2018 If anybody thinks that CAPAZ truly wants to raise money for the right reason they may want to rethink. Taking a simple fee increase off the table REALLY limits any way to raise money other than a tag grab. I am sorry but them saying a $5 increase would place a financial burden on sportsmen is total BS. They will start small saying they don't want many tags and the majority will not be trophy hunts. Give it a couple years and they will control a huge percentage of the most desirable tags in AZ and they WILL be auctioning tags at a big banquet not dissimilar to what Utah does. All they want right now is a foot in the door, which they have been granted. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ringer Report post Posted June 11, 2018 Watch the new committee for familiar names. If they are following the Don Peay rules they already have a commissioner or two in their pockets and will get some of the old SFW people on the committee. It is all politics from here on out. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJMauro12 Report post Posted June 11, 2018 I dont know much about the Utah model (expo) that Pete refers to multiple times in the podcasts other than comments Ive heard on this site. I take most of what I read on this site with a grain of salt because everyone has their own bias and sarcasm. I dont have any first hand experiences or knowledge of the Utah model. I decided to take a look at the Utah section on the carp deer website, which of course comes with the same bias, but there are multiple threads regarding their expo. I havent read through all of them yet but there seems to be a lot of negative comments and accusations regarding the expo but it also has its supporters. Obviously, Internet forums are not a strong research tool but you can get an idea of how some Utah residents feel it has affected them wether it is positive or negative. There seemed to be a lot of negative but that could be from your standard conspiracy theorists. After listening to the meeting on Friday, I believe the commissioner that took the time to reach out to other state organizations to ask their stance on trail cameras played a huge role in how the vote turned out. That same tactic might be the best way to beat this thing. That is if the critter groups of Utah see the expo as a negative for their state. Ill be doing some more research and reaching out to some Utah critter groups to see if they have a stance on the expo. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJMauro12 Report post Posted June 11, 2018 http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2013/03/19/did-don-peays-organization-essentially-buy-utah-division-of-wildlife/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azbugler Report post Posted June 11, 2018 If anybody thinks that CAPAZ truly wants to raise money for the right reason they may want to rethink. Taking a simple fee increase off the table REALLY limits any way to raise money other than a tag grab. I am sorry but them saying a $5 increase would place a financial burden on sportsmen is total BS. They will start small saying they don't want many tags and the majority will not be trophy hunts. Give it a couple years and they will control a huge percentage of the most desirable tags in AZ and they WILL be auctioning tags at a big banquet not dissimilar to what Utah does. All they want right now is a foot in the door, which they have been granted. What do they stand to gain from this? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost85 Report post Posted June 12, 2018 Same thing Utah SFW has to gain from it. The board members’ rich buddies get tags while they line their pockets. Anyone know where the other 70% of the money raised from the Utah banquet ends up? If so, please enlighten everyone. The committee that AZ puts together will all have ties and similar interests to the Utah SFW and Don Peay. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azbugler Report post Posted June 12, 2018 Same thing Utah SFW has to gain from it. The board members rich buddies get tags while they line their pockets. Anyone know where the other 70% of the money raised from the Utah banquet ends up? If so, please enlighten everyone. The committee that AZ puts together will all have ties and similar interests to the Utah SFW and Don Peay. Interesting. They say that zero dollars will go back to the organization. Who knows where the truth lies. I do know that Pete Cimarello has been involved in AZ wildlife for many many years and had a good track record. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost85 Report post Posted June 12, 2018 Thats the problem. People dont do their research. All they hear is a group wants to raise money to fight off antis, and theyre all about it. Do some digging into the board members of CAPAZ. They are all current or previous SFW members. Some are on the commissioner appointing committe. Conflict of interest? They are the same group that tried to pay off a congressman to slip the tag grab through last time just before his term ended. They all have ties with the perennial auction tag buyers (meyer, hamberlin, gallo, Barrett, etc). They openly talk about the million dollar donors that are lined up if they get things their way. I am convinced that there is not one supporter that could put theirself on a stand and honestly say that CAPAZ has all of our best interests in mind. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SirRoyal Report post Posted June 12, 2018 How do you keep the wealthy from spiking the raffle tags? So one guy buys 50% of the raffle tags. Its already been done and guess who wins! Its another tag grab with a different name! And wealthy guys are behind it!!!! Really they only want a small % of tags across the board. Ya the already hardest tags in Arizona to draw. Its HUGE! Come on gentlemen dont drink their kool aid. Its all about selfish motives. I dont care what excuse they use! SirRoyal 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
knothead Report post Posted June 12, 2018 Pete has been involved with AZ wildlife and supporting hunting and conservation for longer than many on this board have been alive. It's crazy how some people go after people and their reputations just because they disagree on something. Pete has his beliefs and they might not align with yours but don't besmirch the guy. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost85 Report post Posted June 12, 2018 i could give a rats as$ how long Pete has been involved in conservation. How long have the Clintons been involved in politics? Are they to be trusted? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flatlander Report post Posted June 12, 2018 No one is defaming Pete, but he is clearly dead set on making the tag thing happen and has no desire to consider anything else. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
